[system2]

Indian developers don't care about security unless you explain how to build the software step by step. Many firms got burnt because of this. We stopped working with individuals and teams in 2018. They don't care about security.

[eek2121]

I was trying to say this in polite terms, but failed to find the words. I am absolutely not knocking India at all. My all time best manager came from India and he taught me A LOT about software development in the earlier 2000s. He was incredibly smart, and there were 2 other folks at that company from India that also were very smart.

However, I've also had to deal with the reverse. Folks from India and elsewhere that just blindly churn out code according to literal instructions and don't give any thought as to how that code might not be safe/efficient/whatever.

That being said, I blame the company, not the people. You could easily end up in a similar mess here in the states if you don't take some time to vet.

(note: watching someone code on an interview aka pair coding isn't vetting, even take home assignments don't. If you do either of these, you aren't vetting, you are subconsciously looking at speed/accuracy/ability to think quickly, which may also mean you are discriminating based on age/disability -- i.e. people that code slower or think slower tend to be older or have a disability -- which is a violation of federal law here in the states.)

[subtra3t]

I think you should rephrase your comment, your comment gives off the wrong impression in its current state.

[system2]

It is phrased as I believe it. I am not going to feel sympathetic towards Indian developers after they caused millions of dollars of damage to our businesses over the years. The great majority of them are very low-skilled and lie about their skills. When questioned they disappear. We even dealt with fake-named ones. Had some installing malicious scripts to random parts of the e-commerce systems.

I even had a conversation with one telling me "Americans can afford it, we don't feel bad hacking them". This came from a developer who worked with us for over 2 years.

This is not a subject like genders and pronouns or whatever makes sensitive people feel angry. I advise anyone I meet the same thing. Avoid at all costs. Maybe 1 in 20 are okay but I don't recommend rolling the dice for that single gem.

[subtra3t]

This isn't about "sensitivity". This is about racism. Just because you had a bad experience with a few Indian developers doesn't mean that all of them are bad.

And where did that 5% chance come from? Any kind of data to back it up or is it just a number you pulled out from nowhere?

If your businesses don't know how to employ external contractors blame it on your managers. India is a massive country. Not every Indian developer is an incompetent buffoon, just like not every European/American is the next Fabric Bellard.

[system2]

I am certain my observation is not different than other developers in the United States. I also work with Indian companies who happen to know other Indian developers and I hear the same quality issues from actual Indian people themselves. I am not talking about 1-2 developers out there. We tried over 50 over the years. Barely 1 or 2 worked out and eventually, they started working for other companies because loyalty doesn't exist.

It is not racism. Since we stopped working with them, we haven't had a single issue with our software development services. They simply do not understand business basics. They write code as if we ask ChatGPT. No second thought, no bug hunt. Just linear coding with no security in mind. They do not ask themselves "If I remove this code from here, would this other part break?". We worked more on fixing the issues they caused than we worked with them.

We won't make this mistake again. I am also very sure this is not only us. I heard it from many American developers. If you have some time, just read some horror stories on tech blogs and other forums. I understand things might be difficult in India that force people to lie about their skills to make money but now we rather pay double than deal with issues the cheap labor causes.