[patio11]

I’m glad you liked the interview.

Some people do not enjoy my writing style. That is fine; it’s a big Internet and there are writers with many styles on it. Some people think my style is poorly considered or unnecessary. I invite them to attempt writing a few million words. It will give one a very considered view on one’s own style.

I have spent half my life working in a foreign-to-me language and so I feel for non-native speakers who try to read my writing. That said, all choices in life have trade-offs. Many publications in the U.S. target a fifth to eighth grade reading level. You likely would have little difficulty reading those publications, much like I have comparatively little difficulty reading Japanese aimed at 5th graders. However, people rarely associate those publications with dense, insightful, textured prose on complicated technical and interdisciplinary subjects. (If some HNers do, awesome; stuff you’ll love is available at the obvious places on the Internet.)

[riemannzeta]

I love your writing. I believe the reason some people do not is because you are very precise, which means using more words. As you know, people are impatient and prefer less words unless they can see clearly how more words were necessary.

In case you needed any encouragement, here's some: Keep going, you're amazing!

[Xorathena]

> all choices in life have trade-offs

> I invite them to attempt writing a few million words. It will give one a very considered view on one’s own style.

That it will! I recently went from [not writing many documents] to [writing a ton of documents], and it turbocharged my reflecting-on-style background process.

Thanks again for your documents over the decades!

...and as a quote in HPMOR put it:

> Apparently people who were in books actually sounded like a book when they talked.

[idlewords]

The challenge in writing well is not writing a million words, but choosing which 900,000 words to delete.

[tptacek]

That's the way I try to write, with middling results; I'm nowhere nearly as gifted as you are (which drives me a little nuts). I don't know if it's the way Patrick tries to write. But I do know that Patrick's writing is extraordinarily successful. It's stylistically not to your liking, you've made very clear, but it's effective at communicating the ideas he's looking to communicate, and, especially with Bits About Money, has found a large and receptive audience.

The concision you're looking for in his work is one mark of successful writing, but not the only one. You can compare his writing to that of, say, the Rationalists, who have never found a narrative they were unable to pulverize into a half-finished wiki page. There's research, and the choice of which details to make prominent. B.A.M. succeeds in part because it tells interesting stories. That's good writing, regardless of stylistic choices.

I think you're being too glib. This could have been a much more interesting discussion.

[idlewords]

The guy came here and said, people can't handle my writing because it's so dense and textured; let them go ahead and try to write these millions of words. I thought that was obnoxious, but since the technology does not yet exist to give people swirlies over the internet, I adapt to the constraints of the medium.

[tptacek]

I really don't care about the personal dynamics here. We are all three of us polarizing figures to substantial numbers of people on the Internet.

What bugs me is the blithe assertion about the quality of his writing, because like it's just demonstrably false that he writes badly. He has different writing goals, different subject matter, a different audience, and a very different style. It's easy to see how any or all of those things might not be your cup of tea. But his writing is effective, which is really the first and most important thing you want to ask for from what he's trying to accomplish. Just as important (to me, nerding out about this) I don't think he'd be more effective if he tried to write more like you do.

[idlewords]

I'm sorry, but he writes badly! Like the guy at the head of the thread said, it's painful trying to parse his sentences, and that's not because the material is inherently difficult (compare Matt Levine, who can make similar subject matter read like Wodehouse).

The context of this subthread is a non-native speaker asking if the fault here lies with the writer or the reader, and I gave my honest opinion. Arguments about effectiveness and success are neither here nor there; don't make me drag Kenny G into this.

[tptacek]

It is wild to me that you think that, because he has a following that adores his writing, including among professional writers. I'm not trying to persuade you at this point, but I genuinely would like a better understanding of how you think about this stuff.

This is not about sticking up for Patrick, who can stick up himself just fine (he has more readers than either of us). It's about my understanding of what "good writing" is.