[keep320909]

I prefer Logseq. It does not need plugins for basic things (PDF annotations). And is completely opensource with transparent development on Github. And I find its workflow much better.

Obsidian is commercial closed source app with subscription. Free for personal use only, commercial license is $50/year. I am not going to build my PIM around proprietary tool with subscription!

[orbital-decay]

> I am not going to build my PIM around proprietary tool with subscription!

If your concern is about the lack of a clear migration path, Obsidian vaults are just folders with markdown files, which can be used with absolutely anything, you can literally use them in Emacs or VSCode if you want. The most popular PDF annotation plugin is AGPL-3 licensed and its format is also transparent so you can migrate to something else.

[keep320909]

> which can be used with absolutely anything

Not really, markdown has tons of tiny implementation details. And I can not use PDF annotation plugin in Emacs...

[orbital-decay]

I'm saying that because I actually tried. There are Obsidian and customizable markdown modes/plugins for both Emacs and VSCode. My notes are usually cross-referenced, have pictures, occasional Mermaid diagrams, and are often heavy on math and code.

> markdown has tons of tiny implementation details. And I can not use PDF annotation plugin in Emacs

The same can be said about any other open format, I guess. There's no free lunch, you're always locked in by the implementation/workflow details, and have to write actual code (or use the code written by someone else) to migrate off to a different tool. The point is to not be locked by the format obfuscation or the storage.

[keep320909]

I have text notes that go back to 1997, PDF annotation notes back to 2003. I use PDF annotations for books, articles and webpages (save to PDF). About 70 gigabytes of annotated PDFs at this point.

I need to be absolutely sure PDF annotation tool will be around in a year 2050! Obsidian may withdraw their subscription offer at any time! Or raise subscription to $10000 per year (someone here says much higher price would be a steal!). I will always be able to run Logseq PDF annotator! Maybe in virtual machine. Or I will patch it (I have source code!!!). I have control over it!

And I really really hate fiddling with plugins. I was never much of Vim/Emacs guy for this reasons (prefer integrated IDEs such Idea). Logseq just works without setting up dozens of plugins and scripts. I use vanilla version with two plugins (video timestamp annotations and extra theme).

[poulpy123]

If you don't need the extensive extension library of obsidian and want an open source tool, I would advise for Joplin. Tthe philosophy of logseq is completely different of obsidian (and joplin), being centered on lists instead of documents

[jauntywundrkind]

Joplin having data in a db is a non-starter for me. The flat-file nature of Logseq makes it much easier for me to script/mine/garden my digital garden.

[aprdm]

Hm really ? It easily exports to markdown, and scripting against sqlite is very straightforward too

[jauntywundrkind]

The impedance feels unnecessary.

I want my data checked into git, and directly accessible. I don't feel like custom schemas and database drivers, as a user, do anything but make the operational loop painful.

I can quickly use any mdast library/toolkits and some terrible shell scripts to make anything possible in moments.

[aprdm]

I guess it depends the person, dealing with sqlite + python doesn't need dependencies or custom drivers and is easy to do/easier to manage for me than bash scripts

[jauntywundrkind]

The tools to manipulate SQL aren't that bad, no.

But rather than having a self explanatory markdown & flat file, now I have to start learning about the schema & making specific tools (in my preferred language) for manipulating Joplin's schema.

Suddenly I'm digging through 20 different technic specs to decode what data is where, how it works, and what I can do to it. Want to edit history? This is the best help you'll get, pray it's adequately technical to expedite you to your purpose: https://github.com/laurent22/joplin/blob/dev/readme/dev/spec...

As I began with, I struggle to imagine anything that generates anywhere near as much user agency as flat files and markdown. Having boring common data & systems lets me apply portable skills I already have, rather than having to skill up in some particular product's own ecosystem.

[keep320909]

Logseq is journaling app with graphs. Notes are not organized in folders, but tags. I find journaling much better. I never procrastinate deciding into what category/folder/doc notes should fit. I just put everything into journal and fluently refactor as time goes.

[kirso]

+1 and if you need to replicate some structure you can use namespaces like review/weekly

[aprdm]

Can you expand how you refactor ?

[keep320909]

Take bullet point, and move it to new page. Or extract all mentions of tag into single page. There are some basic hotkeys and commands.

Refactoring is perhaps strong word, more like mouse dragging and copy&paste. It just feels like refactoring code. I can move things around without worrying something disappears or gets forgotten. I can also leave things half finished, without negative effects on readability and discoverability.

[hiAndrewQuinn]

Wait, really? I thought it was going to be like $300, $50 would be a steal for the ability to use the Templater plugin to generate all of my business reports from YAML.