[PaulHoule]

Your inlaws had the best information in '97 and wealth of knowledge about specific products but the right entrepreneur might see it differently these days. (e.g. your inlaws could sell out and get into another business because their brand still had value)

I went to Best Buy to buy a microwave oven last weekend and noticed that all the microwaves: (a) had a Proposition 65 label (see https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2023/06/why-most-applian...) or (b) were made in China.

Had any microwave been different on front (a) or front (b) it would have been shortlisted in a second. Instead I had to compare a number of twisty little claims that all looked alike and face the strong temptation to buy the absolutely cheapest because it seems the $250 microwave could just as well burn out in two years.

As for toasters my recollection as a kid growing up was that toasters were made of metal and could toast bread quickly. When manufacturing went to China I remember my mother-in-law buying several plastic toasters from Wal-Mart in succession that burned up within weeks. Eventually Chinese toasters became reliable at the expense of running at half the speed of old toasters which they countered by adding more slots.

Today there are more concerns than ever about China's centrality in manufacturing so politics alone mean more consumers are like me and would be receptive to products which have a different origin (say Vietnam, Pakistan, Tunisa, etc.) particularly if this is coupled with a clear difference in quality, which I know is possible because of my history with toasters.

It is so for toasters but also for other domestic appliances. If you could communicate that you're really different there is a frustrated consumer who would listen.

[jen20]

There was an interesting segment on the Accidental Tech Podcast [1] recently about microwaves, I did not realise that there were effectively only a couple of actual microwave units on the market and everything else is brand wrapping around it.

I replaced my need for a toaster recently with a Breville Joule oven, and am quite impressed, I'd definitely buy one of their microwaves if I ever needed one.

[1]: https://atp.fm/560

[ericpauley]

AFAIK Breville microwaves are also made by Midea.

[cavisne]

Starbucks coffee has a Prop 65 label. It's likely that any domestic toaster would also put one on. The reason for this is the onus is on the company to prove it doesn't have any risky chemicals. The USA is the land of the frivolous lawsuit so its just not worth it.

[PaulHoule]

I'd say yes and no.

The last Prop 65 label that I thought a lot about was on a bag of Asian fried snacks that had high levels of acrylamide which is a real cancer concern but on the other hand there acrylamide in all kinds of traditionally prepared foods as well as "ultra processed" foods.

Before that there was the garden hose nozzle that had brass with about 10% lead because lead makes machining brass dramatically easier but on the other hand do I want to be touching a 10% lead object a lot or getting lead in my garden?

The microwave probably gets it because of bisphenol A in polycarbonate plastics which really is a problem, the exact extent of which we don't know. It might be the reason why somebody you know is massively overweight or why your sperm count is down.

So even though the P65 label is commonly about a risk people widely accept I'd be happier to get something w/o a P65 label than one with it and getting rid of that label would be a real incentive to improve safety just as RoHS has been. The difference is that P65 is a lot harsher.

If anything, the PFAS debacle has proved that the "you have to prove substance X is harmful" model is not effective in situations where X is one of 10,000 harmful substances... I mean if you replace Bisphenol A with Bisphenol B you are probably not making a real difference.

[lazide]

Unless you’re microwaving your food in direct contact with the inside surfaces of the microwave - which is nearly impossible and would make an incredible mess - how could BPA in your microwave ever matter at all?

Oh, and unless you’re drinking directly from your garden hose (which is a terrible idea and will likely make you very sick), it really doesn’t matter if your garden hose nozzle is ‘lead free’ (which still has lead btw!) or not.