[grepfru_it]

Extending this thread because it costs maybe max 2 hours of consult time with a lawyer to put one together. $500 today can save you from a $5M lawsuit tomorrow.

And even then you should still read it and become intimately knowledgeable with each provision

[traceroute66]

> $500 today can save you from a $5M lawsuit tomorrow.

Yup. I've had one or two clients make all sorts of threats at me, accusing me of stuff when it was caused by their inactions.

But then funnily enough, when they finally get round to paying their lawyers to look at the contract they signed, they find they don't have a leg to stand on or at least they'll struggle to make a worthwhile case.

[grepfru_it]

My liability insurance asks who drafts the legal agreements in engagements and, if it is my company, they explicitly ask if a lawyer is involved.

[traceroute66]

> My liability insurance asks who drafts the legal agreements in engagements and, if it is my company, they explicitly ask if a lawyer is involved.

Yup.

This is precisely one of the points I was getting at.

If your business has liability insurance and ESPECIALLY if your business has professional indemnity insurance, then really you have zero option but to pay a lawyer to draft a contract.

Read the proposal form you signed. Read the small print of the insurance. And most important of all, remember how insurance works, the insurance company expects you to have made a reasonable effort to mitigate your losses.

By being a cheapskate and using a free/cheap ready-made template from the internet, the insurance company would be well within their rights to argue that you had not made a reasonable effort to mitigate your losses and the loss adjusters will adjust your payout downwards accordingly.

[mixmastamyk]

Not sure I understand the context of this sub-thread?

What kind of lawsuits (and need for liability insurance) should be expected for a software SaaS with a TOS that basically says "we're not liable for anything...". As every software terms state (grumble).

From the sound of it, seems you two are talking about providing something moderately mission critical.

[traceroute66]

> with a TOS that basically says "we're not liable for anything...".

And therein lies the problem.

You may think that stating "we're not liable for anything" is an easy get out of jail free card.

The reality is that drafting LOL (Limitation Of Liability) clauses is an artform that evolves constantly inline with emerging case-law in your jurisdiction.

You see, there's this little problem of someone called a judge.

Judges tend not to like people who take the piss and draft one-sided contracts. Judges have many powers, one of which is ruling to disregard unlawful or unfair contract clauses. Shitty LOL clauses are like a red rag to a bull for a judge !

A good commercial lawyer will know how far you can take your LOL clauses without taking the piss.

At the end of the day, if you're selling SaaS, then "we're not liable for anything" is unlikely to cut it in the vast majority of jurisdictions in this world.

So that also answers your second question about why liability and indemnity insurance exists. For the stuff you can't LOL.

[mixmastamyk]

Ok, thanks. I agree this is a concern that exists and is a worry for some. But I'm looking for concrete examples of what kinds of events and businesses are most at risk.

[anjel]

The advice is golden, however the hourly rate is about ten years old. Expect to pay a minimum of $400 hourly rate. (Free initial telephone consults are still easy to find and I have cumulatively learned a lot stacking multiple free consults together)