[crazygringo]

It's just banning.

It's no different than if you get caught running cheat software in an online game.

The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you -- they're just banning you. You broke the rules and that's what happens.

[bensecure]

> The company isn't "retaliating" against you, or even "punishing" you

yes they are

> You broke the rules and that's what happens.

And when it happens its called a "punishment", which is a kind of "retaliation". Words don't stop applying because you don't like their connotation.

[crazygringo]

No -- words like punishment and retaliation have a connotation of being personal and being emotional, or punishment can be linked to the justice system.

They're not appropriate words for mere policy. Like if you damage your apartment and don't get your security deposit back, that's not punishment or retaliation. It's just policy.

Same thing if you try to return something after thirty days and that's against policy. When they don't take the return, they're not punishing you.

Does that help clarify?

[bensecure]

The difference is in trying to highlight the "policy" as being fundamentally just and fair, versus arbitrary and capricious. If I have a "policy" of beating up anybody who looks at me funny, that doesn't make it any less retaliatory. On the other hand, the justice system has a habit of avoiding the term "punishment" because they don't like the connotation.

[jasonm23]

> Words don't stop applying because you don't like their connotation.

Yes they do. The world is full of shills and boiled frogs.

[bscphil]

This site rightly has a different attitude when, say, HP remotely bricks working printers because someone used unauthorized ink. We don't sit back and say "you broke the rules and that's what happens."

[JumpCrisscross]

> when, say, HP remotely bricks working printers because someone used unauthorized ink

There is evidence of intent and immutability, i.e. nobody has shown Apple won’t reverse the ban when shown the device is legitimately accessing iMessage.

[bscphil]

Kinda like how HP will make your printer work again if you simply buy and install approved ink?

[dmz73]

You cannot argue with Apple users on any topic that is critical of Apple. For them, Apple can do no wrong. If Apple hardware breaks due to manufacturing fault, they will criticize the person for not buying Apple-care and then suggest just buying another Apple device. Apple is their identify. In this case iMessage is the safe haven that they can trust and allowing external (non-Apple) users would violate that feeling of safety.

[ok_dad]

Jeez, you’re painting with a broad brush here. I use Apple products and like them but I think they should open stuff up more. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time I used to for dealing with tech issues on Linux or the other open source stuff, so I buy Apple which is certainly better to customers than Microsoft, for example.

I don’t get where the idea that Apple users are zombies came from. Apple users like the products and services Apple provides, nothing else, there’s no ulterior motive there.

[paulmd]

I've remarked many times but it's absolutely insane just how casually android users drop the "apple SHEEPLE" or "brainless blue bubbles" shit. It's so absolutely completely normalized that they don't even comprehend that it might be offensive to the people actually in the discussion with them.

statistically speaking about half this site probably has apple and most people have very specific reasons for picking them. And they've been hearing people exactly like GP casually dump on them for years - even if a particular person isn't being this direct and coarse about it, they know that's the thought process underneath.

After a while it's just another microaggression, and since they're micro you're not really supposed to call them out or act on them, but again, everyone knows what the score really is.

[smoldesu]

> but again, everyone knows what the score really is.

That's the problem, innit? Both Apple and Android users see the writing on the wall, nobody is winning. The only people who actively frustrate themselves on tech sentiments are the ones that honestly believe that Apple/Google knows what's best or that Elon Musk is a benefactor to humanity. Rationally, those are wrong conclusions. You're not mad because Android/iOS pundits are harassing you, you're mad because a false assumption about businesses and your personal identity is falling apart. That's fine. Conscious smartphone users everywhere should feel that way.

Similarly, there are people on this website that will laugh you off the stage if you admit to daily-driving Emacs or BSD. Opinionated people are like that everywhere from the CNBC comment section to 9to5Mac. You and me are not obligated to respond to them, and sometimes there is no rational response. Apple does a lot of irrational things, like telling their customers "you're holding it wrong" in response to hardware antennae problems. You don't need to take it personally that you can't defend the indefensible. Most Android users are really in the same boat, tied to a bloodthirsty OEM and Google who will both make irrational choices on the regular. You could call them out, but then you're arguing against your own side. It's a duopoly designed to suck people's egos into it, and the only way to meaningfully discuss change is to acknowledge that neither solution is perfect. It's hard to do when you're fully invested in any ecosystem, but Apple's (and Google's) flaws are self-evident.

Apple will continue to get criticized for as long as they earn the criticism, like how Microsoft and Google were (rightfully) dragged through the mud before them. If you want to change that, vote with your wallet and encourage your favorite company to act the way you want them to.