[buffington]

I think it's a valuable skill to develop a sensitivity towards how workers are treated by their employers and how your own actions, however small to you, can have a big impact on them.

We all know by now that low paying jobs don't just pay poorly, but take everything they can from their employees. Closing at 5PM means clocking out, then locking the door at 5PM. If a customer came in at 4:45PM and you had to stop cleanup, start cooking, then cleanup again after 5PM that's a shame. Maybe you need to be better at your job. And you're a part time employee, so you don't qualify for overtime. Do better next time.

Service workers are treated like garbage, by their employers and by customers.

No one is making excuses for poor communication either. Don't you think that the kid mopping the floor would like to explicitly articulate in every way he knows how that it's only a real asshole who comes in asking for a french dip 5 minutes before closing? Or should he maybe a make a sign to put on the door underneath the business hours describing how, though he can't make you, it'd make his life a lot better if you didn't order food during the last half our of the day? How long would he have a job?

The thing about "cultural norms" (why not "norms?") is that expecting everyone to understand them is precisely what makes them "norms" in the first place.

[try_the_bass]

The thing about "cultural norms" (why not "norms?") is that expecting everyone to understand them is precisely what makes them "norms" in the first place.

It's "cultural norms" because it only extends to the scope of some population of people. These tend to break down when outsiders become involved, because one population's norms aren't always the same as another's.

This is why I have preference towards being explicit. If you don't want to make food after 4:30pm, put up a sign that says the kitchen closes at 4:30pm. Then it's explicit, and you don't have to rely on the implicit understanding of "cultural norms" in order to effectively communicate that you don't want to be making food later than 4:30pm.

It removes potential sources of ambiguity in favor of explicitly stating your preferences. This generally works better for all parties involved.

[buffington]

What you describe is certainly ideal.

But we don't have the ideal. We have employers calling the shots about what "we close at 5pm" means, and employees who would love to explicitly, in very clear language, explain why coming in within minutes of closing ruins their day. But if they did that, they'd lose their jobs.

I'm not saying we shouldn't fix what's broken. I'm saying because it's broken and that while it's broken, don't be an asshole to people stuck in the broken system.

[paul7986]

It's simple lock their doors at 845pm that says it all and I'm fine with it because it's confusing otherwise! I also had similar issue at Wendy's 30 minutes before closing time.

Overall and again I'm confused as to When is the appropriate time to go and get food from a place when their hours say 10am to 10pm?

[d1sxeyes]

I would personally say to expect the kitchen to start finishing around 9:15pm. Unless it’s a super high traffic place or a place where they do online orders as well, I would avoid going as much as possible after 9:15pm, and I would not even bother after about 9:40pm

[paul7986]

Then why even say your open 10 to 10 when you are only serving til 930pm (allow 30 minutes for worker clean up)? Just close at 930 and they are paid til 10pm.

Anything else makes zero logical sense when a business explicitly states business hours are 10am to 10pm. Throughout my posts here I've noted 15 minutes before closing I'm empathetic to and even explicitly asked the worker at the sub shop is it too late which should could've said I've cleaned up could you come tomorrow. Yet 30 minutes ..isn't cause then what's next 45 minutes.. 60 minutes..whenever they feel like it and business hours that are posted have no meaning!

This was never a thing before Covid ..15 minutes possibly but 30 minutes never and that's the gist of my argument! People are lazier and value their time more then their employers and or their employers no longer pay them beyond closing hours (something changed)! As well could be a mix of both.

[d1sxeyes]

To be fair a lot of places do publish a “kitchen closes at”, or at least mark it on the menu, so folks coming in after 9:30 know that they can have a drink but that’s it.

I think that’s the best solution to be honest, but it’s not done everywhere.

[paul7986]

Sure small restaurants such a sign I might have seen but not at a drive in window or the hours the fast food restaurant posts online.

Think we've been talking about two different types of places to eat :-)