[at_a_remove]

I was thinking about this last night, what with people currently obsessing over "walkable cities." First, we need to understand why some people don't really like dense housing. Let me try a rough list without a great deal of order. Noise, smells, having to not make noise, crime, vermin infestation, inability to re-shape the property, the lack of permanence (you can be kicked out) ... that's a good starter. Some of those are inherent to the housing like the inability to re-shape the interior much. And I think vermin infestation will move up the rankings with bedbugs. But most of the rest seem fixable.

In fact, most of the rest have been fixable for a very long time. We could totally do a lot better with the ventilation and the HVAC in these larger buildings. We absolutely could have a lot of soundproofing so your upstairs neighbor who juggles bowling balls at three a.m. (but he's not good at it) can do his thing, or maybe you wouldn't have to tiptoe for the guy under you who works third shift. Fixable.

But the fact that they are fixable and that we haven't fixed them is a very, very strong signal that We're Not Going To. In short, we could build some nice multifamily housing where you wouldn't have to deal with cooking smells, or cigars, or the catbox, or whatever, but collectively we just refuse to do so. I think that will continue. And so some people will go on to not like that kind of living situation.

Perfectly possible. We're just not gonna.

[thfuran]

>inability to re-shape the property, the lack of permanence (you can be kicked out) ... that's a good starter. Some of those are inherent to the housing like the inability to re-shape the interior much.

Those are not density problems; they're renting problems. You can rent a single family home or purchase an apartment.

[at_a_remove]

Okay so I have a condo right, I bought it, it's mine. Can I add an extra room? Maybe a patio? An outbuilding?

[lukas099]

A couple problems.

1) We not only can, but we do build high-quality multifamily housing. Not enough, but then again we're not building enough of any kind of housing

2) Sure, some people don't like dense housing, but it's obviously preferable to the alternative for a lot of people, otherwise not so many people would live there.

[faeriechangling]

All of those are good points. Living high density sucks.

The thing is, something has gotta give. It’s simply not possible for everybody to have a front yard and backyard and standalone dwelling. Density is likely the lesser evil.

[lukas099]

> Living high density sucks.

Sounds like "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded". Obviously the high-density places are providing something, or they wouldn't be high-density.

[Gibbon1]

When I think about this I think there are two ends of this spectrum. On one end you can argue the merits of quiet detached housing on a large tract of land vs things like town housing. The other end the merits of living in an efficiency apartment vs sleeping on cardboard in a doorway.