[klyrs]

Julia is my source of pessimism. Julia is super fast once it's warmed up, but before it gets there, it's painfully slow. They seem to be making progress on this, but it's been gradual. I understand that Java had similar growing pains, but it's better now. Combined with the boondoggle of py3, I'm worried for the future of my beloved language as it enters another phase of transformation.

[leephillips]

Would you say of the latest release (v1.10) that Julia is painfully slow until it gets “warmed up”? If so, what exactly does this mean?

[klyrs]

I'm not that up to date on the language, it's been a few years since I did anything nontrivial with it because the experience was so poor. And while that might not seem fair to Julia, it's my honest experience: my concern isn't a pissing match between Julia and the world, it's that bad JIT experience is a huge turnoff and I'm worried about Python's future as it goes down this road.

[leephillips]

There has been so much progress in Julia’s startup performance in the past “few years” that someone’s qualitative impressions from several major releases before the current one are of limited relevance.

[klyrs]

You're making this about Julia despite my repeated statements to the contrary. Please reread what I've written, you aren't responding to the actual point I've made twice now. A reminder: I'm talking specifically about my outlook on the future of Python, vis a vis my historical experience with how other JIT languages have developed.

If you wanted to rebut this, you'd need to argue that Julia has always been awesome and that my experience with a slow warmup was atypical. But that would be a lie, right?

And, subtext: when I wrote my first commebt in this thread, its highest sibling led with

> I think the pessimism really comes from a dislike for Python

So I weighed in as a Python lover who is pessimistic for reasons other than a bias against the language.

[leephillips]

> I'm talking specifically about my outlook on the future of Python, vis a vis my historical experience with how other JIT languages have developed.

But your assessment of the other language you mentioned is several years out of date and made largely irrelevant by the fast pace of progress. Therefore your conclusions about the probable future of Python, which may be correct, nevertheless do not follow.

[klyrs]

I was sharing feelings and opinions, when you refer to my "conclusions" you're speaking to elements of the empty set. I get that you're a big Julia evangelist, but if you hope to reach people, you must learn to listen.

How long did it take Julia to solve its warmup issue? The language is about 12, and I last tried in earnest two years ago. So, a decade, give or take? You speak from the top of a mountain, and you say the view is nice. Sitting at the base of a similar mountain, it's the journey that I dread, because Python's recent long-term journeys have been pretty rough. And I'm just not convinced that the destination is so great.