[toomuchtodo]

Indeed! Japan’s system is very efficient, and he has lived there for some time, so he should be familiar.

Similarly, it took the US forever to implement an instant payment system (commercial banks built Zelle via Early Warning Systems and RTP via The Clearinghouse, and the Fed finally built FedNow after Congress directed them to in order to ensure universal access) while India and Brazil rapidly rolled out their implementations (UPI and Pix, respectively).

These are intentional choices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/opinion/filing-taxes-in-j...

[pezezin]

Really? I live in Japan, last month I had to fill my taxes, and I found the process to be really convoluted and annoying compared to my home country (Spain). Likewise, banks feel really obsolete and inefficient here.

I shudder to imagine how bad the American system is to make Japan look good :/

[mcherm]

My wife calculates and submits our taxes (here in the US). It typically takes her 40 to 60 hours to complete, and that's after spending around $100 USD on tax preparation software to make it easier.

To be fair, our taxes are more complex than many people's (I live in a different state than my employer and we have some stock market investments), but it's still ABSURDLY difficult.

And I'm not counting the time needed to respond to Federal or State follow-ups 9 months later where they question the values we provided. That happens to us about every 2-3 years. So far it has only once found a minor error on our part.

[georgyo]

What?!

I do my taxes myself for my family. I have W2s, K1s, various 1099s for investments, own a home, and deal with carry overs from the previous years.

It takes me about an hour to do it. And then another hour to amend them many months later when I get my actual K1s.

How hard is it to answer 100 questions and copy numbers over from one place to another? W2 box 1 goes to W2 box 1. No I don't own a corn farm. I donated this much to these organizations. I would consider 25% of my rent for my home office.

Both turbo tax and tax hawk will connect to your investment bank and populate all the obscure 1099 stuff there. Dealing with international investment was definitely confusing the first time around, but definitely not 40 hours worth.

40 hours is 8 hours a day for 5 days straight. I don't know what you value yours wife's time at, but if it really takes that long you might be better off paying a CPA a few hundred dollars.

[zamfi]

Yeah, just taxes alone doesn’t seem like it should take that long—but doing accounting for taxes can take a long time, especially if you’re self-employed and taking deductions, or have employees for your schedule-C business, etc.

Perhaps the poster is including the accounting in the tax prep.

[mv4]

Same. W2s across 3 states, K1s, 1099s, LLC and Schedule C - takes a few hours, incl. state filings. Usually complete it in one day.

[Dalewyn]

>Japan’s system is very efficient,

Yes, because there is only one tax authority (国税庁, Kokuzeichou, National Tax Agency).

Here in the US, we have more than one tax authority:

We have the IRS, which is the federal tax authority.

Each state then has their own tax authority.

Each county then has their own tax authority.

Each city then might have their own tax authority.

And we must submit filings and returns with and pay taxes to all of them as applicable, and they all operate on their own laws, regulations, and taxes.

To reframe this, let's talk about sales tax. In Japan, there is only one nationwide sales tax; because there is only one tax authority.

In the US, sales tax might be levied at the state, county, and city levels as applicable (federal doesn't levy sales tax, as far as I'm aware). Some might not have sales tax, others might, and they are all different rates. The sale tax in one city will be different from its neighbouring city.

TL;DR: Paying taxes in the US is complicated because everyone wants their taxes.

[mrmanner]

> Paying taxes in the US is complicated because everyone wants their taxes

Everyone wants their taxes and refuses to cooperate. Most countries have some kind of local or regional taxes, and the single tax authority is responsible for collecting and distributing them all.

I get that the federal level in the US is a bit special (EU for example doesn’t tax citizens directly, instead the member states pay fees from their tax revenue). The local tax authorities per county surprised me though - what a mess…

[mixdup]

>Most countries have some kind of local or regional taxes, and the single tax authority is responsible for collecting and distributing them all.

Most states operate this way. Counties will often collect city taxes, and in some states the state will collect the city and county taxes. There are obviously exceptions but within states there's a lot more cooperation than you might think

And most individuals are not paying income taxes to cities or counties, they're paying property taxes and that is typically automatically handled via their mortgage company

[phpisthebest]

>>I get that the federal level in the US is a bit special (EU for example doesn’t tax citizens directly, instead the member states pay fees from their tax revenue).

the US Federal government was not suppose to tax citizens directly either, thanks to the 16th Amendment that was passed under the lie that it would only ever be a "Tax on the rich" of 3% and only apply to 1% of the people, now the federal government takes nearly 25% of all citizens incomes,, and uses that money to bribe people for votes and extort states for policies they desire...

[mdhb]

Maybe you should be more pissed about that 1% who are using every trick in the book to avoid paying taxes.

Also as a side note why you think economic policy from hundreds of years ago is the pinnacle of excellence is a more than a but confusing.

[mixdup]

I'm curious percentage wise how many people are having to file returns with their city or county. I've lived in two states (Alabama and Georgia) and even in a city with an "income tax" at the city level and have only ever had to file federal and state taxes

In Alabama the county and city I lived and worked in both had what they deem occupational taxes which are effectively an payroll tax, but there was no system of exemptions or refunds, it operated as a payroll tax only. My employer had to file the taxes, not me

I suspect the vast majority of people in the US only ever file state and federal returns, although a lot of people live in small states or along state borders so a lot probably have to file two state returns

[int_19h]

For most individuals (as opposed to businesses), the only relevant taxes for the tax return are federal and state income taxes. Even then, there are several states in the country that have no state income tax, so you end up filing only the federal return. I live in such a state, and I still find the system very convoluted compared to what I've seen elsewhere.

Most crucially, it's still unclear to me why a return has to be filed at all for any tax that is already paid (from wages), and why it has to be manually compiled in cases where the agency has all the information about taxable income. If I don't owe anything, I shouldn't even need to file anything. If I do owe taxes, send me the forms prefilled and let me either sign off on them or add any missing info as needed. Anything over and above this is just pure waste of everybody's time and an opportunity for parasites to profit.

[kalleboo]

Japan also has prefectural and city taxes that vary by prefecture/city, and get charged separately (the bill comes later in the year from the national tax), they still get their taxes. Just in a less convoluted manner.