[epolanski]

I really dislike this warmongering.

Looking at the last 150 years, or even the most recent decades, it's us having a history of invading countries or conducting military operations to support different parties.

Yet, we are so blind of that. China has been mostly on the receiving stick (by European countries as well), not the offending one. Even when it comes to Vietnam or Korea it has been us who meddled in those internal conflicts first by sending troops.

Even when it comes to Taiwan, it's still us who have settled on a policy of ambiguity and defense of a country we legally recognize as a government of the same unique Chinese country, after avoiding to even recognize the PRC for 3 decades.

Even though we keep meddling and deciding the policies of half the world, we still keep demonizing any potential geopolitical entity and we keep pushing everyone in a vassal-attitude due to the unmatched economic, cultural and military power of the US.

Yet countries like China, Russia, and many others, will just never play fiddle to that.

This hawkish paranoia does nothing but further push China to defend its own geopolitical interests and further poke their aggression.

And where we needed a more hawkish paranoia, as in case of Russia, we failed and still keep failing to do so, because Russia has never really been in the economic and financial position to threaten our geopolitical interests to the extent that China can.

The way I see it, western countries and US should take a clear stand about Taiwanese statehood, and Taiwan needs to do it first on their own in order for the rest of the world to take a stand, as they legally still lay claim on the entirety of China (and beyond).

[The_Colonel]

> The way I see it, western countries and US should take a clear stand about Taiwanese statehood, and Taiwan needs to do it first on their own in order for the rest of the world to take a stand, as they legally still lay claim on the entirety of China (and beyond).

Isn't it ironic that you're accusing others of warmongering, but then suggest an action which would almost certainly provoke a war? (China has been pretty explicit about declaration of sovereignty being their red line)

[epolanski]

This doesn't change the fact that the Taiwanese status is de jure unresolved and will constitute a never ending basis for conflict and tension.

This tension can only be relieved by de jure integrating Taiwan in Chinese statehood under very huge degrees of autonomy, which no one, let alone Taiwanese people ever trust or by unilateral statehood declaration (which has no support internationally, least of all in US since Taiwan not declaring independent statehood is the entire basis of the US-Taiwan relations act).

[The_Colonel]

> This tension can only be relieved by de jure integrating Taiwan in Chinese statehood under very huge degrees of autonomy

You mean like the huge degrees of autonomy Hong Kong enjoys? That seems like such a huge strategic blunder by Xi. Instead of making it a positive example for Taiwan to follow, they made it a strong deterrent to a peaceful integration.

> which has no support internationally

It has no support internationally, because to get that support, you first need to declare sovereignty.

[epolanski]

HK is a bit different. It was a land lease and the Britons negotiated for a 50 year transition period before HK was fully assimilated.

I fully agree with your conclusion and spirit though which is why I said that Taiwan has no reason for any kind of trust for a peaceful integration with the PRC.

[wkat4242]

Which turned out more like a 5 year transition period. Let's not forget.

[biotopia]

You can't be serious, China is actively supplying Russia's war against Ukraine and rest of Europe, with purchases and military supplies.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Trade/China-Russia-trade-top...

https://www.politico.eu/article/china-firms-russia-body-armo...

[epolanski]

I don't want to abuse whataboutism, but you're aware that besides actively engaging in multiple wars and international military actions we also support Ukrainian war effort directly right?

You're suffering of the usual American exceptionalism, where US is allowed to overthrow governments at will, conduct military actions, decide to support whatever side (sometimes arming both), but other countries cannot.

Just to point out, I obviously condone the military actions in Ukraine (especially since I am a Pole of Ukrainian descent), but I obviously also condoned overthrowing Libyan government or the Iraqi military intervention too and many other despicable actions our governments have conducted in the last decades.

[The_Colonel]

> I obviously condone the military actions in Ukraine (especially since I am a Pole of Ukrainian descent)

I don't want to be too adversarial, but don't you feel a bit hypocritical by supporting Ukraine to preserve its sovereignty in face of a larger, strongly authoritarian neighbor, but arguing for Taiwanese to simply give up their own?

[epolanski]

I never argued for that:

> The way I see it, western countries and US should take a clear stand about Taiwanese statehood, and Taiwan needs to do it first on their own in order for the rest of the world to take a stand, as they legally still lay claim on the entirety of China (and beyond).

and this:

> This tension can only be relieved by de jure integrating Taiwan in Chinese statehood under very huge degrees of autonomy, which no one, let alone Taiwanese people ever trust or by unilateral statehood declaration.

I argue that at some point there is a need for a de jure resolution of the Taiwanese matter or this issue will come again and again.

And, the way I see it, it has been US starting from Bush but most importantly under the hawkish Trump presidency that has made the matter relevant again combined with the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[The_Colonel]

> This tension can only be relieved by de jure integrating Ukraine in Russia under very huge degrees of autonomy...

> I argue that at some point there is a need for a de jure resolution of the Ukrainian matter or this issue will come again and again.

How does that sound to your ears?

[epolanski]

You know that there is no similarity at all between this and the taiwanese situation right?

[SkyMarshal]

> I really dislike this warmongering.

I'm not warmongering. I'm not calling for war. I'm just observing reality and describing it.

> Looking at the last 150 years, or even the most recent decades, it's us having a history of invading countries or conducting military operations to support different parties.

I'm aware of much that, from Smedly Butler's "War is a Racket", to the CIA's disastrous interventions in Iran, Chile, and other countries, to the more recent endless wars of pre-emptive regime change against rogue states aspiring to become nuclear powers. But conversely, defending existing democracies against being overrun by authoritarian dictatorships is not that. One can be against the former and for the latter.

>The way I see it, western countries and US should take a clear stand about Taiwanese statehood, and Taiwan needs to do it first on their own in order for the rest of the world to take a stand, as they legally still lay claim on the entirety of China (and beyond).

Both conceding Taiwan to the CCP, and supporting a Taiwanese declaration of independence, would lead to bad outcomes from the US point of view. Conceding could embolden the CCP to push further, toward the other small countries in ASEAN, or Mongolia, etc. Appeasement of dictatorships has been known to lead to that outcome, especially ones already acting belligerent and hostile to their other neighbors. Conversely, formal independence for Taiwan is the CCP's red line and would certainly result in war.

What the US chose instead was to publicly support the "One China" policy so as not to embarrass the CCP or cause loss of face, which is important over there, while also supporting Taiwan's defacto independence (and, I suspect, privately communicating that an attack on Taiwan would not be acceptable). After formally switching recognition to the CCP in 1971, this was the only realistic policy position for the US to take. One could argue against formally switching recognition, but after that was done, ambiguity over Taiwan was the only option.

[holografix]

Have you heard of Tibet? Nice place to holiday.

Or would you like a 6 month all inclusive holiday in a Uyghur re-education camp?

Or would you prefer an island getaway? There’s a few brand new ones in South East Asia the Chinese are building on coral reefs in order to erect military bullying outposts and exert pressure on small SEA countries.

If you’re from a developing nation you can finance jyour corrupt infrastructure project with the Chinese and have some of your key infra under their control while you sink the country into unpayable debt.

[epolanski]

Not sure what is the point you're trying to make.