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by lstamour 899 days ago
That sums up the complexity better than I ever could, but as a tourist visiting London it was relatively painless to tap my Apple Watch and pay by contactless credit card when I got on and when I got off, as long as you’re travelling through supported stops within the city region. This generally included any routes to and from London airports.

Comparing the process in London to that of, say, Paris, it is night and day better with London’s system. Yes, trips might cost more than a flat rate, but you don’t need to have a special card - contactless payments are charged at the same rates as an Oyster card would get charged, including discounts if you take multiple trips in a day.

Compare to Paris where it’s a flat rate, but you can’t get a normal ticket because your anonymous card is somehow designed only for tourist pricing. Let’s not even bother with how long the lines can be to buy said card. I’ll take a system where you tap on and tap off any day of the week over a flat rate system that doesn’t support easy contactless payment at the same rates as everybody else.

I should clarify though - this only applies to any travel by train that you can do from stations that have contactless to stations that also have contactless. Anywhere else, you’re expected to tap off and pay a normal fare for the rest of your travel to an unsupported station by buying it from a website.

And while it is unusual to have such complexity, I should mention that rail travel between countries often has similar complexity - I bought a ticket once from Copenhagen to Malmo, Sweden, but got on a train operated by a different company and had to buy a second ticket - the trains left at the same time to and from the same stations but from two different operators. The confusing part is that the train ticket I needed to buy wasn’t available from a Denmark regional train travel ticket kiosk, it was timed ticket you had to buy in advance from a website as the train’s origins was in Sweden rather than Denmark. (And the Denmark station didn’t have Swedish kiosks.)

I guess what I’m saying is that trains can make airlines look efficient, at least when it comes to buying and handling tickets. ;-)

Edit: I should also mention if I got any of this wrong, I’m actually from North America and about all I can say in response is “at least you have (express, high speed) trains,” as I look at our preference for highways and buses and how most rail in North America is for cargo...

3 comments

London is special.

Literally.

Take bus companies. You don't say if you used any buses, but if you did they all work the same in London, they're all painted red, they take Oyster (your Apple Watch will work), the system keeps track and lets you use more than one to get to your destination without special fees. There are a bunch of bus companies in London, but there's no reason you would care about that, they're all the same to you.

Everywhere else in the UK is forbidden from doing that. In my home city for example there were four major bus companies, each painted their buses a different colour, each used separate tickets, each had its own "integrated" travel pass system. If I caught a 20 out of the city, then boarded a U6 that's two separate journeys with two separate companies, and thus two separate charges and the city government is legally prohibited from telling them to knock it off and just charge a single fee like London.

Even where there is a single (or 2) bus company, the ticketing structure is often crazy complex.

Fares webpages for Oxford:

https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/fares-and-tickets

https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/zone-tickets

> Everywhere else in the UK is forbidden from doing that.

Thankfully this seems to be changing. Greater Manchester, through its devolution in the last few years, has in the last few months started the 'Bee network',[0] which operates similarly to London's bus system. It's being brought in in phases.

Hopefully other areas start doing this too.

[0] https://tfgm.com/

The Dutch system seems to suit your expectations quite well.

There are a bunch of disparate organisations providing busses, water busses/taxis/ferries, rental bikes and trams, metro lines and trains running on publicly owned infrastructure.

One card allows you to check in to all of them, all over the country. You can get a subscription card for a 40% discount (€10 per month) or you can check in anywhere with contactless payments or anonymous cards for the full price.

Yes, I agree. It was a joy to use contactless payment in Amsterdam, and like in London with the TfL app, I could check my payments via the OVpay app, take bikes on trains, and they have very frequent regional trains too. Actually, the OV app is better than the TfL app - I needed a VPN to pretend to be in London in order to check my payments on the TfL app, I didn’t need this for the OV app. Both apps had weird rules about when it would be possible to “fix” or add a tap-off if I’d forgotten to, though, but at least they both have that option unlike Paris, France or Ontario’s system.

And the worst for payment has to be Berlin’s system because they absolutely hate credit cards and prefer cash over other traceable payment methods. It’s nice for anonymity but as a tourist who has to present a passport anyway, I would prefer to just tap and not think about it. Plus they don’t have one app, they have three different apps each with unique features. Paris has the same problem, with regional and local apps, plus even third-party apps that you can buy tickets from.

Transit… some places you have to be a local to understand it and put up with it. Everyone else, at least there’s Uber most places now. Don’t even get me started on paying to use bathrooms by credit card (actually cash only) at a major train station in Brussels.

From experience, I think the OV-chipkaart was the best option traveling the Netherlands. You would just to remember to check-out at the end of your journey so you wouldn't be charged end-to-end pricing. And the fact that you would pay only for the portion used in a trip (there was a few eurocents difference if you took the tram two stops or three stops, same for buses) it also made a lot of economic sense versus the all you can eat model everyone else employs.

Second best from recent years I like the new system in the NYC subway: tap & go, same price as a MetroCard without the hassle of buying one.

Public transport within London has always been both differently managed/funded and also massively better than public transport anywhere else. If you're using London as your only data point you get a very skewed view of the UK public transport situation.

In this case, Transport for London (a public body) has always had much more control over public transport, specifically local political control, and has had the funding and long term planning horizon to set up things like the oyster and contactless payment systems. (And there are also practicalities, like the worst cases fare within the oyster zone being not very large, so it's OK to not take payment immediately but only when the system finds out where you got off, because you're not potentially out hundreds of pounds for a London to Edinburgh fare if it turns out the card being used declines the payment.)