[tchaffee]

I'll probably get downvotes for telling the truth, but whatever, it deserves to be said even if folks only see it for a few hours.

Our industry is still full of sexism and racism. Yes, things have gotten better. But most women in our industry can still tell you disturbing stories. We still have a long way to go.

HN is a generally going to reflect our industry. Some days are better than others here and it really depends on the topic. But it's pretty disappointing when you do come across some blatant sexism or racism and folks agree with it. PG himself is occasionally an angry privileged man moaning about the woke mob so it's no surprise not much has changed here over the decades. The owners like it this way. PG and Dang also get a lot right about how to run a site like this. Both can be true.

[jocaal]

> Our industry is still full of sexism and racism.

Im curious what people like you want. If you look at the rest of the world, the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff than anyone else in the world. And social change on national scales don't happen overnight. Yes improvements can be made, but HN is a site focussed on technology and that is what is mostly discussed. If some sexism or racism or whatever slips through, thats just the world we live in today. If you look at the youth today, they are already much more accommodating towards diverse views. Just give the world time and you'll see on average things will get better. But forcing your views onto people who grew up differently than you is just annoying.

[edit] when saying "people like you" I am refering to the highly vocal inflexible people on the interwebs.

[antonvs]

> the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff

"The west"?

Ok, so when is the US going to become part of the west?

The previous elected president of the United States believes that because he's privileged - by virtue of being a nepobaby - he can "grab women by the pussy", with no consequences.

So you tell me, what do "people like [us] want"? Do you really have no idea?

[jocaal]

> Ok, so when is the US going to become part of the west?

I'm from Africa. Here "the west" is an expression refering to europe and the US and/or advanced democratic countries. I thought it was a common expression, I apologize if I was unclear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

> The previous elected president of the United States believes that because he's privileged - by virtue of being a nepobaby...

Trump doesn't act the way he does "because he is priveledged by virtue of being a nepobaby". He acts that way, because he is old and grew up in times where acting that way was socially accepted. In modern times it is not accepted and people are growing up knowing it is wrong.

The point of my post was basically that preaching to a tech focussed website full of mostly middle aged men is the wrong strategy. If you want to make a difference, go to the youth and don't expect change to happen overnight.

[rco8786]

This site is overwhelmingly anti trump though.

In the corpus of global communities this tends to be an extremely accepting and courteous one, from what I can tell over the last 13 years being on here.

[flir]

> If you look at the rest of the world, the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff than anyone else in the world.

Well that's alright then.

> And social change on national scales don't happen overnight.

Doesn't happen without a motive force, either. People being annoying, that kind of thing.

[naikrovek]

> Im curious what people like you want.

Don't be insane. You know what we want, and that's an end to sexism and racism. I don't care how we compare to other countries, I care how we rank on the "are we sexist or racist at all" metric.

Honestly, your question is one of the worst I have ever read, because it insinuates that you think it's ok to still be racist and sexist as long as we're less racist and sexist than others. We're not less racist or sexist than anyone else in the world, for one thing, so the premise for your complaint is baseless, and the amount of racism and sexism that is acceptable is zero, no matter where you are in the world.

Don't be insane.

[tchaffee]

> people who grew up differently than you

I've been working in this industry for almost four decades. Who grew up differently from me?

You need to go back and fix all your wrong assumptions. There are lots of them.

[tchaffee]

> Im curious what people like you want

A website to discuss interesting things in thoughtful way that is largely free from sexism, ageism, and racism.

> the west seems like it is decades ahead with this sort of stuff

Some countries treated slaves better than other countries. Hopefully you can agree there was still a big problem to fix.

> social change on national scales don't happen overnight

Sure. And I'll be impatient and insistent until I live in the kind of world I want, which is one that is free as practically as possible from sexism, ageism, racism and other bias that keeps us from achieving what we are truly capable of as a species.

> If you look at the youth today, they are already much more accommodating towards diverse views

Which is why many of them avoid this site and call it "The Orange Site".

> Just give the world time and you'll see on average things will get better

I already said things are getting better. I also don't have time. I'm old. And the oppressed themselves have no patience. Nor should they.

> forcing your views onto people who grew up differently than you is just annoying

Who here is forcing their views on people who grew up differently?

If the price to pay for a better world is that I have to annoy some people who want to maintain the status quo, I am more than willing to pay that price. I wish it were actually that easy.

[chupapimunyenyo]

Prove your claims

[growingkittens]

A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem.

If you point out something specific, some users will double down on their view that nothing is wrong. They start arguing as if they know nothing, and demand that every detail must be elaborated to them on a silver platter.

Oh, and the demands for stats.

Nevermind that the social sciences are in their infancy, and largely incapable of measuring the effects of things such as racism and sexism.

Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler - it is systematic (step by step), not systemic (whole picture). Reality is made of interconnected systems, and both perspectives are required to understand reality.

[the_only_law]

> A lot of users don't seem to recognize racism or sexism when it is not directed at them. This leads them to think it is not a problem.

Well for a site that loves to jack off to how much smarter they are than the rest of the internet, I’m just shocked.

[seabass-labrax]

> Science itself is the equivalent of a toddler

Or even a kitten ;)

[growingkittens]

Kittens progress much faster than toddlers!

[lapcat]

> I'll probably get downvotes for

For all X, saying "I'll probably get downvotes for" is an invitation to get downvoted.

[tchaffee]

Yes it is. I've been here for over a decade. But despite your tip, I'm still going to speak freely this one time.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

> sexism and racism

I'd add "ageism" to the list.

Just sayin'...

[tchaffee]

I've been working in our industry for almost four decades. Yeah, ageism is an ugly part of our industry too.

[antonvs]

> occasionally

hahaha