[MichaelZuo]

Here's an example from Australia:

"On 17 December 1967, Harold Holt, the 17th prime minister of Australia, disappeared while swimming in the sea near Portsea, Victoria. An enormous search operation was mounted in and around Cheviot Beach, but his body was never recovered."

[foldr]

He went for a swim and drowned. The facts of his disappearance are known and fully acknowledged insofar as anyone has been able to discover them. That's hardly an equivalent scenario to that of, e.g., Li Shangfu.

[MichaelZuo]

Did you even read the entire comment?

It clearly says his body was never recovered, so 'the facts of his disappearance' are not fully known, by definition.

Anyways, there's dozens of examples of presidents, prime ministers, ministers, deputy ministers, party leaders, etc., who've disappeared or died under mysterious circumstances. And that's just post WW2. Which anyone can find via a quick search online.

[foldr]

>Holt loved the ocean, particularly spearfishing... On 17 December 1967, while Holt was spending the weekend at Portsea, he and four companions decided to drive to Point Nepean to watch sailor Alec Rose pass through The Rip on his solo circumnavigation attempt... Holt convinced the group to stop at remote Cheviot Beach for a swim before lunch – he had spearfished there on many previous occasions, and claimed to "know this beach like the back of my hand". Because of the rough conditions, only one other person, Alan Stewart, joined Holt in the water. Stewart kept close to shore, but Holt swam out into deeper water and was seemingly caught up in a rip, eventually disappearing from view. One of the witnesses, Marjorie Gillespie, described it as "like a leaf being taken out [...] so quick and final".

He drowned. There's nothing mysterious about it. We are not living in an Agatha Christie novel.

The point here isn't just that Li Shangfu has disappeared but that the fact of his disappearance has not even been officially acknowledged. If Lloyd Austin had been missing for months, the US government would at least acknowledge this and make some kind of statement about it.

[MichaelZuo]

I was responding to 'The facts of his disappearance are known'.

Which is clearly not the case.

It can be supposed that the facts are known if we assume it was an entirely coincidental and unlucky day to pick for swimming in that area. But that's just a supposition. At best, an agreed upon supposition by the majority of the few hundred or thousand people who've deeply investigated the case. But that still doesn't equate to 'facts'.

[foldr]

We know he drowned. There are witnesses to what happened. If someone goes for a swim in the sea in rough weather, gets swept away by a current, and then is never seen again...I mean, you do the math. If you have some plausible alternative theory then let's hear it. But on the face of it, there is nothing remotely mysterious about Holt's death.

>I was responding to 'The facts of his disappearance are known'.

Not to be too pedantic, but I said "the facts of his disappearance are known...insofar as anyone has been able to discover them". That is, there is no secret cabal that has additional information about what happened. The Australian government is not concealing anything. All anyone knows is what we all know: that he went for a swim in rough weather and drowned.

[MichaelZuo]

Did anyone, or any group, in Australia circa 1967 have a serious grudge against him?

[djkivi]

Well, we've found out it would take a week in Lloyd Austin's case...

[jevoten]

People go missing/get arrested all the time. What justifies suspicions of foul play is when those disappearances are unusually concentrated in some group, e.g. politicians, and more frequent than usual for that group.

[MichaelZuo]

Right, but how does that relate to my comment, or the parent's comment?

[foogazi]

Seems like a “whatabout” comment - lame

[MichaelZuo]

Okay if that's true, then write something better and more productive?

It doesn't make sense to write something even worse and closer to random noise.

[foogazi]

Why does it matter if other regimes have had disappearances in their past ?

How is that relevant to the fact the problematic officials, billionaires, athletes disappear in Xi’s government ?

The problem is the lack of transparency, hence the comparison to Stalinist purges.

[MichaelZuo]

If you genuinely want to know, shouldn't you be asking 'foldr' of why it's relevant to raise the comparison?

I can't speak on their behalf since I am a different person.

See their parent comment:

> In a Western democracy, government ministers don't just go missing without any official explanation for their disappearance. (I am not suggesting that such official explanations are always true, but they at least exist.)