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by thaumasiotes 905 days ago
When you're classifying letters in the abstract, Y doesn't get included in the vowels.

There is a school of thought that says you should also be able to classify letters as they appear in specific words.† That's where the idea comes from that "Y is sometimes a vowel".

But people who believe that they hold to that school are generally unwilling to say that M is sometimes a vowel, despite the fact that the spelling of the second syllable in rhythm is "m". This is difficult to reconcile with the justification given for Y sometimes being a vowel, that any syllable must contain a vowel.

As far as the phonetics go, they support the idea that "m" /m/ in rhythm is not a vowel [it would be called a "syllabic consonant"] while "y" /i/ in homily is. Obviously, this requires tossing out the idea that all syllables must contain vowels. Phonetics assigns an intermediate status to the "y" /j/ in "yell" - it is a vowel as far as the mechanics of producing it go, but it clearly behaves as if it is a consonant, so it is called a "glide".

As far as the etymology goes, Y represents a foreign sound, a vowel in ancient Greek, and it's always a vowel. Interestingly enough, the ancient Greek vowel is sometimes a consonant (what you'd think of as V) in modern Greek.

† This doesn't really work; any particular word will have a definite spelling and a definite pronunciation, but that doesn't mean that it's possible to consistently map the letters of the spelling to the sounds of the pronunciation.

1 comments

Maybe it's an accent thing (mine is typical British) but the 'm' in 'rhythm' doesn't act like a vowel in my mind, not the way 'y' does in 'sky'.

The only kind-of vowel sound in the second syllable of rhythm is what you get from saying "th", but actually it just sounds like 3 consonants together without a vowel.

People say that 'y' is sometimes a vowel because it sometimes sounds like one, not because it sometimes fits in a syllable.

Y /j/ always sounds like a vowel. As I mentioned, phonetically it is one. It's just that a shortened version can act as a consonant for phonological purposes. Y as represented in yell and pretty are the same sound; it's just shorter in yell.