[ChatGTP]

Because it's totally unsubstantiated, there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too. Obviously what people consume, the frequency etc will have to some what change, but there is no reason through innovation, incentives, education that we can't do it.

I think the idea that this is "impossible" and the only way to get there is to go back to the stone ages is actually the reason why we're not there yet.

Rather than spend time just improving things, we like to have a bitch about it.

[Aerbil313]

> there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too.

Unfortunately there is. See [1] and [2] for an introduction to the topic and [3] for the concept of ecological overshoot. It’s simply not possible to have infinite growth in a finite world.

Humanity have first exceeded the annual carrying capacity of Earth in 1971, first year when Earth Overshoot Day happened.

1: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xr9rIQxwj4

2: https://www.collapsemusings.com/overshoot-why-its-already-to...

3: https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/media-backgr...

[ChatGTP]

I personally never mentioned infinite growth.

Infinite growth is a sily idea and I doubt the majority of people really think this is a worthwhile / desirable thing to shoot for anyway goal anyway.

I don't see why we can't have tech, sustainable travel (more rail, even intercontinental high speed trains), renewable energy industries and innovation, and more driving a sustainable economy?

[Aerbil313]

You're right, "We can't have infinite growth" meaning "We can't grow more sustainably/We should stop growth in order sustainable existence of human population" would make much more sense 50 years ago. We're far past sustainable thresholds at this point.

> I don't see why we can't have tech ...

The article I linked ("Overshoot: Why It's Already Too Late To Save Civilization") explains why we can't, there simply isn't enough resources on planet Earth now. If the humanity were to follow the platonic utopian ideal of strictly sustainable development of technology over past centuries, sure, why not? We could mine the asteroids and whatnot. There was enough resources and a sufficiently intact biosphere, atmosphere etc. to allow it. But the Earth-system at this point is simply fucked up beyond repair. Reread this last sentence. For a person who sees his purpose in this world and has hopes to achieve something in this world (read: most people in the West), this is the most depressing and hopeless thing he can ever think of, even more depressing than "I am mentally/physically fucked up beyond repair."

I am a Muslim, so everything I do is ultimately oriented for my afterlife, and all deeds (and sins) of mine are recorded and will be carried with me to the day of Judgement, where I will face God's absolute justice and hopefully mercy for all what I did. This world is no longer than a blink of an eye relative to my eternal life. Thus I am not depressed by the situation the world is in. What matters is what I do here in my time. YMMV based on your faith/beliefs/lack of them.

The article is a long but enlightening read, I even translated it to my native lang and published it even though I am no writer or translator.

[ChatGTP]

The article I linked ("Overshoot: Why It's Already Too Late To Save Civilization") explains why we can't, there simply isn't enough resources on planet Earth now.

Tomorrow won't be the same as today, look at the advances in AI, which will likely benefit many aspects of science. More will be done with less.

so everything I do is ultimately oriented for my afterlife, and all deeds (and sins) of mine are recorded and will be carried with me to the day of Judgement

In my opinion this is why you hold such a bleak outlook on everything. Try changing that and it might feel a bit better.

Thus I am not depressed by the situation the world is in

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself.

[Aerbil313]

> More will be done with less.

I don’t doubt this. But the technological advancements required to sustain the current population are either not even in the horizon, or are outright physically impossible. AGI leading hopefully rapidly to ASI can probably solve a lot of things with advanced materials science, but aside from that possibility the future does look pretty bleak. Please read the article yourself and you’ll understand, there’s just too many crises cornering humanity, each of them currently with seemingly no way to solve.

> I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself.

I’m sorry, no. The only reason I mentioned the relation with depression is because I know from experience (friends, sample size < 10) an awful lot ratio of Western people tend to get serious depression at least temporarily after seeing the current true situation of the world.

[mmazing]

I'm not sure how you got any of those conclusions from my comment. I was just curious why crypto didn't cause a blip on the graph.

Maybe you should calm down.