[cycomanic]

> > > If he’s mad at that wait till he sees what the cp command does!

> >

> > in order for that analogy to even remotely be applicable, midjourney would have to be a program you run on your own computer and not a service running on midjourney's computers that does what you ask it to.

> So your argument is that the tool running remotely as a service somehow makes it different from one running on your local computer?

> So if someone copies the contents of a novel into Google Docs, Google is liable for their copyright infringement, but if they paste it into Word running on their computer, all of the liability is on them?

But that's not what happening here. If Google docs hat a button, "put Harry Potter books here" that when pressed it puts the whole text of the Harry Potter books into the document. Now who do you think should be liable for copyright infringement, Google who put the whole text of Harry Potter books somewhere into the Google docs source code, or the user who pressed the button? Your argument seems to be the user, but I find that highly illogical.

The central issue is that the copyrighted images are already inside midjourney, the user is just getting them out via queries (pressing a button). The user is _not_ adding the copyrighted material to midjourney.

[coolhand2120]

If you were to search any Harry Potter book using google search I'm sure you will find the unlicensed content, served up to you by google, very quickly, with less prompt than midjourney needs. You can hand wave about how it's so different but I see the search example returning a hashed copy vs. midjourney making something you could argue in court is infringement. The thing is, both are already illegal. You don't need additional government meddling in code to make illegal something that is already illegal.

In all cases, the person committing the crime is the person to prosecute. What would happen if I used Photoshop to carefully recreate the image by hand? Or even a paint brush and canvas? It would still be illegal! What are you arguing to make illegal? The paint brush? For _some people_ making clones of copyrighted work is very easy, this tool makes is easy for more people. But for you, _it's the tool?_

And in any of these cases you're trying to protect the same IP holders that cut off access to content you purchased, so any idea of fairness in copyright is a joke at this point anyway. I work in that industry so I knew it was possible, but I never thought they would do it with a huge swath of content like what happened to play station owners. IP holders deserve no sympathy or protection under the law after that move.

You might say "but these are not the people we're trying to protect". Too bad, that's what any IP law restricting generative AI would protect. And consider the draconian means required to do so.

[cycomanic]

> If you were to search any Harry Potter book using google search I'm sure you will find the unlicensed content, served up to you by google, very quickly, with less prompt than midjourney needs. You can hand wave about how it's so different but I see the search example returning a hashed copy vs. midjourney making something you could argue in court is infringement. The thing is, both are already illegal. You don't need additional government meddling in code to make illegal something that is already illegal.

That's not how the Internet works. Google is not serving you the Harry Potter books contents, they (might) point you to a different server that (might) be serving you the books, but what theat website would be doing is in fact illegal in most jurisdictions. In contrast midjourney are the ones serving you the content, that is a huge difference and not "handwaving". If you don't see a difference there than I really don't know what to say.

> In all cases, the person committing the crime is the person to prosecute.

Yes and it is midjourney who is committing the crime. Their models contain the unlicenced copyrighted material and they sell a service using that material.

> What would happen if I used Photoshop to carefully recreate the image by hand? Or even a paint brush and canvas? It would still be illegal! What are you arguing to make illegal? The paint brush?

Why are you continuing to ignore the central point that midjourney contains the copyrighted work? That's completely different to being a brush?

> For _some people_ making clones of copyrighted work is very easy, this tool makes is easy for more people. But for you, _it's the tool?_

Yes because "the tool" is already making the clone, inside it's model.

> And in any of these cases you're trying to protect the same IP holders that cut off access to content you purchased, so any idea of fairness in copyright is a joke at this point anyway. I work in that industry so I knew it was possible, but I never thought they would do it with a huge swath of content like what happened to play station owners. IP holders deserve no sympathy or protection under the law after that move.

So instead we are happy for even larger corporations to just take all creative outputs (and that includes lots of open source software) simply feed their models and resell this work of others through their models essentially disowning the previous creators without paying anything? Now if these models would actually be freely available and all parameters published I might be OK with it as the end of copyright as we know it, but that's not what is happening here. We are essentially witnessing the dispossession and monopolization of knowledge by a few large corporations and startups.

> You might say "but these are not the people we're trying to protect". Too bad, that's what any IP law restricting generative AI would protect. And consider the draconian means required to do so.