[kragen]

i don't have much to add here but wanted to express my gratitude for having had the opportunity to read your wonderful comment

well, maybe one thing: if it doesn't matter whether anyone played the game or knew the rules, then magic: the gathering was turing-complete before the first magic deck was printed, before the first human was born, before the first star was formed, perhaps before the big bang

[eesmith]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

If you go down that route you'll realize there are an uncountable number of games that have never been created, and will never be created, which are Turing-complete.

And start wondering if mathematics is created or discovered.