[hef19898]

And the last small scale nuclear reactor project, NuScale, was completely cancelled. So the amount of power produced by this reactor type seems rather limited, trending to zero even. And guess what, we need snall reactors to power ships, reactors we don't have (no, those half dozen Russian ones don't count).

See how this game can be olqyed in both directions? Difference being, all the real money, and industry, is going for green fuels and not nuclear power when it comes to ships. I tend to believe those people.

[Manuel_D]

NuScale wasn't building maritime propulsion.

Again, how many ships have been powered by green fuels? How many have been powered nuclear reactors? One of those is infinitely larger than the other. One of these technologies has over half a century of real world usage.

Comparing white papers about synthetic fuels with the cost history of actual nuclear powered ships that were built and operated for a decade or longer is comparing apples to oranges.

[ZeroGravitas]

Green fuel ships exist now. They're still in the early stages but plenty of big names in the business are putting their weight behind then.

Plenty of "normal" ships are already hybrid electric like trains, so swapping out the diesel generator isn't particularly a science project and doesn't affect the already electric propellors.

You mostly need a financial incentive to burn clean methanol, ammonia or whatever. That's the hard part.

[Manuel_D]

List some examples of cargo ships powered by green fuels that are presently in operation. Not small prototype ships, but green fuel powered ships comparable in capacity to the NS Savannah and other nuclear powered civilian ships: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_marine_propulsion#Ci...

[ZeroGravitas]

The first Maersk Methanol powered cargo ship just rolled off the production line:

https://www.marinelink.com/news/maersks-first-teu-methanolfu...

And all the ships they've ordered since 2021 can run on methanol:

https://www.maersk.com/news/articles/2023/12/07/maersk-to-de...

[hef19898]

What does Maersk know about shipping or ship building, those bloody amateurs? /s

[hef19898]

You just don't get it, do you? There is no readily available reactor tech suitable for commercial maritime use at the moment, none.

We do have technology so to produce green fuel for ships, and the whole shipping industry, from carriers to builders, is pursuing that in their goal of carbon neutral in 2050.

Of course there is still the possibility of those people being oart of a grand anti-nuclear conspiracy. Or they analyzed the tech and costs and came to an informed solution, one that is now global policy. You pick.

[Manuel_D]

> There is no readily available reactor tech suitable for commercial maritime use at the moment, none.

You realize there's a nuclear powered cargo ship in operation right now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmorput

This technology not only exists, it's being used presently. And that's on top of the other three nuclear cargo ships that were previously built. We still have those proven designs.

> We do have technology so to produce green fuel for ships, and the whole shipping industry,

We do not. Existing synthetic gas plants are not capturing CO2 from the atmosphere. They are either using biomass or industrial byproduct CO2. The former of which does not scale, the latter is not truly carbon free it's just using carbon that would have been released into the atmosphere anyway. Neither is a pathway to producing green fuels at scale. Startups are pursuing atmospheric carbon sequestration, but it's proven elusive so far.

[hef19898]

Solutions for green hydrogen generation from sea water do exist, and are even competitive depending on volume produced. One (!) nuclear powered cargo vessel, built as a specialized ship for fleet support in the Russian arctic seaa and capable of going through 1.5 meters of ice (thus requiring the power output of a nuclear power plant, same reason Russian icebreakers use NPPs) and bein used for supply missions to the Russian naval base in Murmansk, doesn't really count.

Again, those other cargo ships, NS Savannah, Otto Hahn and the Japanese one, were all economical failures, the Japanese one was even a technological failure. That makes a grand total of around 7 civilian maritime NPPs in operation, all Russian, with less than one built per year. Global shipping needs hundreds of those, at cost point competitive with alternatives to be viable. That tech, or capacity to build those numbers, simply doesn't exist. heck, that is even mentioned as a direct quote in the Reuters article that is being paraded around.

[Manuel_D]

They were economic failures relative to fossil fuel powered ships - not relative to green fuels powered ships.

Again, if you're going to say that civilian nuclear maritime propulsion doesn't exist, because there have only been 7 such ships built by four different countries then green fuels powered cargo ships don't exist either. Again, how many cargo ships have been powered by green fuels? How many have operated for more than a decade?

[hef19898]

Oh dear god, I just lost a considerable amount of brain cells...

A couple of questions, answer those or just, pardon my French, shut up:

How do you think all those hundreds of nuclear ship reactors will be built yearly?

Have you heard of NOx catalysts?

Are you aware of the possibility to generate hydrogen through electrolysis?

Hoe do you square the fact that litterally nobody in the shipping industries is making the case for nuclrar powered cargo vessels?