[toomuchtodo]

If rent is the predominate cost, why do pizza delivery only ghost kitchens not take off? Doesn’t matter where it’s made, just where the customer is. You could make them in a shipping container dropped in a big box parking lot with a roll up door for delivery drivers to load their trunk, like Spirit Halloween for pizza. What am I missing?

You don't need a robot pizza machine, you need an operating model where rent doesn't hold your bottom line hostage (based on my very limited understanding of the business fundamentals). Rent goes up? Class 8 Semi pulls up to pull the trailer to somewhere else with hookups.

Edit: thanks for the learnings y’all!

[manymatter]

I worked in such a ghost kitchen in the 1990s (we didn't have a license to sell food on premises.)

You want a gas conveyor oven which actually takes a lot of space and needs ~3 meters in front for assembly and 2 meters behind it. Walk in fridge and freezer are at least another shipping container in size. Then there's clean up and other prep space..

For us, wages were more than rent and probably our competitors rents. 2/3rds of wages would be drivers at slow times going to something like 4/5ths during the Superbowl.

[happytiger]

There are tons of places like this in the SF Bay Area and Singapore (these are just places where I have been involved in investigating them, they are in many more places than that).

There’s even a startup company that will rent you space for running it.

https://cloudkitchens.com/locations/san-francisco-bay-area/

You’re not missing anything. Just bear in mind that demographics drive restaurant delivery businesses intensely and a big part of the business is related to regional demographic trends (and those vary globally quite a lot).

[giantrobot]

If you exist on real estate you're going to pay rent to someone. Even if you manage to find some parcel of public land to operate from you're still paying a lease/mortgage on your shipping container kitchen and all of its contents. You're going to have to pay insurance on the operation.

The best bet would be to pool resources to operate a single kitchen with multiple individual pizza companies as tenants. Each could run their own prep stations but use shared ovens. But you're back to rent dominating costs even if it's lower than having your own kitchen and oven(s).

[oivey]

They basically are ghost kitchens already. Who eats at a pizzeria? The last time I can remember doing so in like 2 decades was in NYC. They have the store fronts so people can pick up rather than deliver.

[SOLAR_FIELDS]

Dominos and PJ’s have more famously been known for counter service in the States. When I say counter service I mean that some stores will have some uncomfortable benches and tables but otherwise make little effort to cater to dine-in guests. Usually a dominos or PJ’s looks a lot like a little Caesar’s or your typical walk up takeaway restaurant in Europe, you’ll have a counter, a register, and maybe a table or two if you’re lucky. Always extremely bright angry lights as well.

Pizza Hut has for many years in a lot of locations maintained more of a restaurant focused approach, often serving AYCE buffet as a destination with proper booths and table service. They have a bunch of retro styled locations in the States that still offer that experience. There’s a pretty neat one that I like in Fredericksburg, TX. The full list of classic locations that I know of is here: https://rolandopujol.substack.com/p/the-retrologists-guide-t...

[Sirizarry]

Ay least in Chicago, pizzeria pubs are pretty popular around the city. Never had NYC pizza but the Chicago variety has been very tasty to me.

[tomjakubowski]

> Doesn’t matter where it’s made, just where the customer is.

It does matter where it's made; a location more distant from customers will mean they get pizza that's less fresh.

[morkalork]

This is what pizza hut has become where I live. All the large locations with their iconic hat-shaped roofs have closed. Instead, they're all operating out of hole-in-the-wall sized locations in strip malls. Barely more than a pickup counter and some bar stool seating by the window.

[shagie]

https://rolandopujol.substack.com/p/the-retrologists-guide-t...

> In 2019, Pizza Hut brought back its 1974 logo, banking on its nostalgic appeal. I figured that would be the end of it, just a simple marketing tactic soon forgotten. There were no plans announced to bring back the logo in stores, much less redesign the restaurants to look like old Pizza Huts from the chain’s heyday.

> But with no fanfare whatsoever, that’s exactly what’s been happening. Pizza Hut has been taking legacy stores and converting them into “Classics.” The formula includes ...

> So far, these stores appear to be limited to smaller markets, where these legacy stores have survived, the bones of the old buildings intact.

> They have generated incredible curiosity and fascination, and when I post photos of them on my Instagram page, they invariably lead to hundreds of comments and excitement and joy that’s impossible to measure. (Here’s a look at the phenomenon on my friend Heath Racela’s Substack.)

... but yea... for pizza, the dine in experience is almost completely gone. Dominos, Little Caesars, Gumby's (for the college town), Pizza Pit, Pizza Hut, Papa Johns. Papa Murphy's takes it to another level without even having ovens (take and bake... which incidentally _also_ allows them to qualify for SNAP https://www.papamurphys.com/faqs/).

You have to look for places like Pizza Factory or Pizza Ranch for a dine in experience (and many other local places that have only one or two places... but very few national chains anymore).

... And then there's Pasqually's Pizza which straddles the line. https://www.pasquallyspizza.com/our-story/ (CEC Entertainment, LLC is Chuck E. Cheese)

[rufus_foreman]

They have retro versions now that they call Pizza Hut Classics, https://rolandopujol.substack.com/p/the-retrologists-guide-t.... None in California.

[jimbob45]

That's what Chuck E Cheese should be doing. They've got the playground/arcade business to be able to subsidize their pizza business to out-compete every other pizza chain out there. Instead, they're cutting costs on both fronts to have...two bad businesses.

[sparcpile]

Chuck E Cheese runs a virtual brand for their pizza called Pasqually's Pizza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OTpHqq6bFg # Comparing Chuck E Cheese pizza and a rebranded CEC frozen pizza

https://www.lastsqueaktonight.com/ # Last Week Tonight's alternative episode when they discussed HOAs. it's a full and funny history of the pizza chain and includes the virtual brand

[jimbob45]

Yeah but it's lousy pizza and underadvertised. You get the feeling it was an employee passion project that management didn't care to nurture because they couldn't stick it on their resumes.

[weaksauce]

they did actually do that during the pandemic... operated under a different name and delivered