[constantly]

> Perhaps a more reasonable goal would be to hire proportionally within US at rates roughly aligning to CS degrees by demographic.

This doesn’t quite do it because of the systemic reasons that CS grads are not representative of the US population at large. So, the goal should really be to hire proportionally within US roughly aligning to the overall demographics of the US population.

[zug_zug]

> So, the goal should really be to hire proportionally within US roughly aligning to the overall demographics of the US population.

Well you're welcome to shoot for that goal if that's what you believe.

But I don't believe that; I believe exactly what I said.

[constantly]

That’s super interesting. I try to emphasize with other belief systems. Can you explain more?

[zug_zug]

Sure. In short I think in a simpler world we might expect all genders, races, and backgrounds to equally participate in all fields but in practice I don't think that needs to be our first goal (and maybe not ever depending on what the research shows).

For example, a lot of people think it's sexist to suggest some groups might prefer coding more, and I think they're coming from a good place with that. However scientists don't dispute that autism rates in boys are significantly higher than girls, for example, and though I haven't seen any formal research it's my impression that about half of professional software engineers fall somewhere on the spectrum (guy or girl).

So personally, I'd want to understand this huge correlation between autism and software engineering (and potentially between gender and autism) before I judged the problem primarily societal.

If we're being honest with ourselves I also think certain cultures have their own respective norms. This isn't really a hot take -- e.g. some cultures value machismo more than others. Different cultures can also value money and saving differently. I haven't looked deeply, but a cursory glance suggests some minorities are even overrepresented in software.

If differing cultures is a big player in differing interest in software careers then I see it as not-our-place to try to try to alter those values.

And I'd even go a step further and say that I've grown skeptical of both sides' motivations as simplistic and tribal. I haven't thought that deeply about this topic (e.g. never read an encyclopedia article), but I get the sense that many people who have much stronger opinions have thought about it even less than I have, and have put less effort into making a logically consistent views on the topic. Often I worry overzealous advocates give a bad image to the cause (as they do for pretty much any group).