[ajross]

> Even if you were trying to avoid any issue with patent and totally build a unique product, you'd still want to start with people who know the problem space vs. re-training people.

Sorry, that's ridiculous. If you were genuinely trying to avoid IP pollution, hiring employees from existing market leaders is the worst possible strategy.

Again, people are twisting themselves around here. Apple got caught red handed here. Argue, if you must, that the patent is invalid from first principles and that any staff could have done it. But the fact that they went and hired all these folks to do it in the real world absolutely constitutes strong evidence to the contrary.

[noirbot]

See, I feel like that's almost the exact opposite unless you assume Apple and its internal legal department is made up of the biggest idiots on the planet. If they were intending on just infringing this valid patent and trying to get away with it, then they've literally handed the world a paper trail that makes them look as bad as possible without a literal email being published in the newspaper from Tim Cook saying "Yea, just violate the patent".

With the history they have with Masimo, surely the more reasonable explanation is that they saw the tech, thought they could make something independently that was as good or better without infringing the patent, and hired off some of the Masimo folks to help with explicit instructions to try to avoid any overlap with their old patents?

Does Apple have some history of flagrantly violating patents I don't know about? If anything, other folks have pointed out that Apple specifically has done this to other people before, so they're keenly aware of the risks here. I just don't buy what seems to be the conventional wisdom of "haha big company is dumb as bricks". Risking getting a flagship product banned from sale seems deeply unlike Apple's business strategy in general, which makes everyone's assertions that this infringement was intentional, flagrant, and obvious to a layman seem like it must have some fault in it.

[Illotus]

> See, I feel like that's almost the exact opposite unless you assume Apple and its internal legal department is made up of the biggest idiots on the planet. If they were intending on just infringing this valid patent and trying to get away with it, then they've literally handed the world a paper trail that makes them look as bad as possible without a literal email being published in the newspaper from Tim Cook saying "Yea, just violate the patent".

They don't really need to be idiots. They just need to trust that there is a reasonable chance that Masimo won't do anything about it and if they do, there is reasonable chance that Apple wins in court and if they don't there might be appeals and if not they might have come up with better non-infringing tech and if not then they can come to license agreement with Masimo. With that train of thought I think its pretty reasonable that Apple acted the way they acted.