[H8crilA]

The shocking part is just how much you can't get away from stupid problems like this. Hilbert believed we could settle these kinds of issues once and for all, the Goedel proved that we can't. So in a sense there isn't anything like "the actual natural numbers without shenanigans", there always are shenanigans.

[naasking]

There always are shenanigans if you pass a certain threshold of expressive power. Can we do most or all useful /interesting stuff below that threshold though?

[H8crilA]

Excessive power has been proven to be just addition and multiplication over the natural numbers. So - no, we can't.

[naasking]

Yes, addition and multiplication over the infinite naturals. I don't think it's obvious that all three of these are needed together for all interesting applications. For instance, various types of finitism eliminate the infinities.