[cbmuser]

You still have the unresolved problem that wind and solar do not produce on-demand.

Any other market would have dropped a production machine already that does not produce on-demand.

It's like having a worker that only works when they feel working and be it 3 AM in the morning. No company boss would accept such a behavior in the long term.

For wind and solar, it's just widely accepted and rather than accepting that you can't build an electricity grid on top of unreliable generation, people try to come up with all kind of weird solutions to force a solution based on solar and wind.

[hef19898]

And seem to fail to understand that industrial electricity demand is flexible nowadays. And has been for almost a decade now.

So to put it in your words, yes, companies are absolutely accepting that kind of behaviour from their electricity suppliers. Companies are even benefiting greatly from it.

[troupo]

They are not as flexible as stopping all production when there's a quiet night and wind+solar produce 0 electricity.

[hef19898]

Hard to say absolutely, because some actually are, e.g. producing graphite as the rest heat can keep the process going for quite a while. And, more importantly, because we do not have 100% renewable grids yet.

Hydro does provide power without wind or sun so, as does bio gas, geothermal, pumped hydro.

Nowadays, base load is nowhere near as important anymore so as it was decades ago, industry quitely adapted without any body noticing, unless they wanted to know.

[troupo]

> because some actually are, e.g. producing graphite

How much graphite are we producing compared to, well, almost literally everything else?

> Hydro does provide power without wind or sun so, as does bio gas, geothermal, pumped hydro.

Hydro, geothermal and pumped hydro have the downsides of: you can't build them everywhere. "Bio gas" is a euphemism for, well, burning hydrocarbons (though burning gas is cleaner than burning coal)

> Nowadays, base load is nowhere near as important anymore so as it was decades ago,

This is a patently false statement. If anything, base load is much more important now than decades ago because almost everything we have and depend on requires electricity 24/7.

> industry quitely adapted without any body noticing, unless they wanted to know.

Well, if your only example of such industry is "graphite production", then it sure has. I sampled a few countries here: https://app.electricitymaps.com (note: the time is European, so you have the reversed numbers for "the other side of the world")

                     02:00     14:00
    Germany         43.7 GW   61.9 GW
    France          58.6 GW   59.2 GW
    UK              25.3 GW   31.4 GW
    Central Brazil  47.4 GW   48.2 GW
    
    US
    PMJ Interconn   94.2 GW   88.0 GW
    SW Power Pool   33.6 GW   34.6 GW
    California      21.9 GW   16.2 GW

Oh, look. You need significant baseload everywhere.

[hef19898]

No power plant can be built anywhere you want, can it? Point being, and I never said we do not need baseload, baseload needs are much, much lower so than they used to be. Graphite production is just one of those really energy hungry industries that found a way to be flixible regarding demand, despite using, in my example, WW1 era production plants. Now imagine what can be done with modern production technology. Other industries I have first hand knowledge of: chemical plants and paper manufacturing. When you do production planning, when you consume electricity is an important constraint. And this flexibility is being rolled out to othet sites and industries, day after day, all the time.

So no, baseload needs are not as important as they used to be. Something people fail to accept, it seems... And those base load needs can be met, among other things, larger grids covering a bigger area. Also something tgat has been found as completely feasible in multiple studies. Feel free to ignore all of that so, I don't want to harm your strongly hold opinion.

[troupo]

> , baseload needs are much, much lower so than they used to be.

No, they aren't. You said, and I quote, "base load is nowhere near as important anymore so as it was decades ago".

Decades ago we didn't have everything requiring electricity 24/7. These days even your stove continuously drives power from the grid. And where "decades ago" your production stopped or slowed down because workers would go home, now you have 24/7 automated production and logistics chains.

Moreover, a lot of industries have shifted to production at night precisely because of the "civilian" electricity requirements during the day.

And energy consumption has only been growing https://www.iea.org/reports/electricity-information-overview...

> Now imagine what can be done with modern production technology.

I don't deal in fantasies.

> So no, baseload needs are not as important as they used to be.

Again, this is patently and provably false.

> Something people fail to accept, it seems...

Some people pretend that their fantasies are fact and that their baseless statements have to be taken at face value.