[ryanmolden]

Yeah, there is definitely a balance to strike between just venting your spleen and calling out real douchebaggery. I have always suspected the "never talk about being screwed over/speak ill of a previous employer" meme is strikingly similar to the kind of meme sociopaths would want to become "the norm". Absent anyone talking about their experiences (good or bad) there would really be much less downside for terrible behavior, since no one would ever mention it so the offenders could just continue on mistreating people with impunity, of course as I said, balance is called for and not all situations are really so one-sided. I was reading a Marshall Goldsmith book awhile back and he made a good point, to paraphrase: "There are the facts and there is the story we tell ourselves about the facts. These are two different things but most people don't differentiate them".

[michaelochurch]

I have always suspected the "never talk about being screwed over/speak ill of a previous employer" meme is strikingly similar to the kind of meme sociopaths would want to become "the norm".

Not sociopathy. Managerial tribalism. To be fair, you probably wouldn't want to work with a company that didn't respect technical talent, right? Well, that goes both ways. Most people making hiring decisions are managers, and therefore don't want to hire someone who seems to dislike managerial authority. Managers and executives tend to protect their own.

I agree with the "no-badmouthing policy" on job interviews. In that context, time is so limited that wasting any on what went wrong at previous companies is just worthless. We're here to talk about the future, not the past. On the other hand, that principle shouldn't have to extend to all quarters of a person's life. I don't think OP is a loser because he failed at Microsoft, nor that he's a douchebag for exposing corporate silliness. I think he should have that right.

The disquieting thing about managerial tribalism is that the good protect the bad. No programmer would argue against the fact that there are some people in software engineering jobs who don't deserve to be there... but managers have a hard time admitting that the bottom 40% of their tribe (at least) are counterproductive, unethical, or even destructive.

[kamaal]

>>The disquieting thing about managerial tribalism is that the good protect the bad. No programmer would argue against the fact that there are some people in software engineering jobs who don't deserve to be there... but managers have a hard time admitting that the bottom 40% of their tribe (at least) are counterproductive, unethical, or even destructive.

That is because the default job of a manager doesn't involve 'getting things done'. That itself brings their profession a degree of inefficiency. Add to this some managers just perceive their jobs as merely exchanging emails, calling for pointless status meetings, asking questions about things they have no clue of, approving leave requests, pushing things as they are as long as they can and things like that. And for that they need to build faithful loyal gang of people, to can bend to their service at command.

True managers lead with example. Bring business, build business, promote meritocracy, and building strong teams that can form common goals and achieve them.

[WalterBright]

The "speak no ill of a previous employer" is not about tribalism or protecting other managers. It's that your prospective employer doesn't care to be disparaged by you when you leave them.

[michaelochurch]

No, it's tribalism. Tribalism mixed with an expectation of authority.

Companies don't make decisions. People do. When someone speaks ill of a previous manager, the reason he is unlikely to get hired is that the person assessing him usually is a manager, and managers don't like people who have the gall to speak out about executive decisions, even when they're objectively bad ones.

Software engineers have a similar tendency, except we don't take it as far. We avoid working at companies that have a reputation for not respecting engineering talent. The difference is that we don't protect the malevolent or incompetent among us. They do too much damage, and we're too rational. No engineer would protect the scumbag consultant who puts a time-bomb in software to hold the client hostage. Yet bad managers are just as destructive, while run-of-the-mill managers routinely defend the actions of the worst managers.