[jnsaff2]

I did a lot of flight sims before getting my PPL about 15 years ago and I did not feel that the sim hurt my progress at all.

It did not help much either.

For me the first real flying was very overwhelming as so many things were happening and had to be taken into account. Luckily my instructor was good and took the load that I didn’t yet need to handle and then I gradually prioritized and got familiar.

As others have pointed out the feel of the plane is just not there in a sim.

I’d even say that things like trim I did not fully understand until in the plane, what a difference it makes and how much less tired you are after.

[kqr]

> I'd even say that things like trim I did not fully understand until in the plane, what a difference it makes and how much less tired you are after.

I have only flown in a sim ut I understand from other activities in life that stick pressure can be a lot if you're not trimmed properly, but is arm fatigue really the main point of trim?

Isn't the main point of trim to configure the plane's pitch stability to maintain the appropriate angle of attack, and any effects on arm fatigue more of a side effect?

[pkilgore]

I'd say this post is a really good example of the diff between sim and real plane.

Trim feels academic in a sim. Your stick is so light, it feels like a tiny convinience. But in a badly trimmed real plane you arent flying as much as arm wrestling.

A good pilot understands that they-the fallible human-are usually the most important component in a plane. Wrestling with the elevator for two hours on a cross country is one great way to ensure that pilot is not operating at full capability. Hell, its a great way to ensure you are behind the plane from the very first moments of takeoff in some planes.

Its so obvious in real life as to be undebatable. Trim the plane! The academics of AoA are irrelvant to an exhausted pilot.

[kqr]

> Trim feels academic in a sim. Your stick is so light, it feels like a tiny convinience.

But to me (a sim user) maintaining AoA stability does not feel "like a tiny convenience". It's critical to maintaining stable flight in a desirable condition.

It's not academic; it's highly practical. Not because it alleviates arm fatigue, of course, but because stable flight is nearly impossible without it -- especially during higher-workload moments.

The idea that you can fly properly without trimming for AoA seems to me like a caricatured view of simulator flight.

[lodovic]

Compare it to using a driving simulator before taking actual driving lessons. Yes, it might give you a slight edge, but the real thing is so much different and is so immersive that a simulator's added value is mostly for experienced users and not so much for beginners.

[Beldin]

I realise US driving lessons are rather different from driving lessons around here. Around here, the goal of driving lessons is (basically) to reduce cognitive load so that you can spend attention on what's happening outside. A steer, pedals, and stick setup would already help enormously with this. Once the student reaches minimal automation, there's no bearing real-world experience though.

So, basically, your argument makes a strong case that simulation is excellent for absolute beginners.