[mikhailt]

> I think the biggest issue here is that Apple seems to be deliberately undermining SMS, which is an open standard

Are you confusing SMS with RCS? Apple hasn't done anything to undermine SMS. Remember, bubbles is not part of SMS, so Apple choosing different colors for each service is not them undermining anything.

Apple has announced RCS support next year for iMessages.

[paulryanrogers]

Making Messages+iMessage the default on their platform whilst also prohibiting competitor apps to serve as the SMS/MMS/RCS client feels like anti-trust to me. Especially as their market share among some demographics approaches 90%.

[mikhailt]

> Making Messages+iMessage the default on their platform whilst also prohibiting competitor apps to serve as the SMS/MMS/RCS client feels like anti-trust to me. Especially as their market share among some demographics approaches 90%.

I agree with that part, no company should be allowed to set defaults without the ability to change the defaults.

That's not related to SMS though, that's a much larger problem that Apple (and MS) should be forced to change. I also think platform vendors should not be allowed to spam users about the said defaults either like how MS is forcing users to go through ads and so on whenever they search for Chrome to install and change to it as default.

[temp0826]

Maybe I just don't understand (maybe it's purely about principles?) but I really can't understand the desire for a separate app for sms, without imessage. Maybe for sms+potentially with other integrations?

[paulryanrogers]

There is a world of possibilities. Signal's optimistic encryption over SMS was one nice enhancement, at least before they dropped SMS support.

[no_wizard]

Which demographics do they have 90% market share?

[Mountain_Skies]

Teenagers in the US are close to 90% Apple. While that doesn't mean they all must use iMessage but it comes bundled with their phone and is what the vast majority of fellow teens have access to so it naturally becomes what they use.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/10/10/iphone-teen-survey-2023...

Intentional or not, Apple gets to ride off of the natural inclination of teens to conform to their peer group.

[mikhailt]

That's true for any default apps on any platforms though.

It's why Google pay Apple tens of billions of dollars per year to be the default search engine.

That's why there needs to be regulations that default apps must be optional and must be permitted to switch to any apps for open standards that are available.

Apple should not get to pick which services I want to use, that's my choice on a device that I own. If I want to use Google Messages as the default SMS/RCS client, that should be permitted and without any pushback from the platform vendors.

[lukeschlather]

Apple isn't implementing encryption in RCS. I don't really care about SMS. I just want it to be that when I send a text to someone on iOS it's encrypted. And it would be nice if it had good support for emojis and multimedia. This is partially on Google too but from the outside looking in, it seems like Google has been honestly trying and Apple has been deliberately sabotaging them. (Not that I'm on Google's side - I just want a good encrypted multimedia messaging standard.)

[throw0101b]

> Apple isn't implementing encryption in RCS.

There is no 'RCS encryption' as defined in the RCS standard(s) as published by GSMA. The encryption that is available on the Android platform is a Google extension: it has a Content-Type value of application/vnd.google.rcs.encrypted:

* https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf

[mikhailt]

How do you know what they're implementing and not, all we know is that they said they will implement RCS, nothing more than that. If they do not, they lose their main messaging that they care about privacy first (which is already bullshit I know).

The main issue here is that Apple is not permitting users from selecting a different SMS/RCS app on their devices. That needs to be addressed.

It should never be up to Apple (or any company in general) to regulate what open standards can be used nor what apps can be used as default for said open standards.

Apple should not be forced to support RCS but they should be forced to allow users to switch to Google Messages (or anyone else like Beeper, Insta, etc) as the default RCS client if they want.

[fh9302]

Even "open" Android doesn't have a third party API for RCS. Google wants to lock everyone into Google Messages. The only exception is Samsung, they got special permission from Google.

[mikhailt]

Yea, Android is not open, AOSP is.

Google is not immune to this either, all companies should be treated the same way IMO. Monopoly status should not be a factor when it comes to default apps and such.

[mdasen]

We don't know that Apple isn't supporting encryption. The rumors are that they're working with the GSM Association on an encryption spec for RCS.

Google has been pushing RCS as an open standard. In some ways it is. However, the encryption isn't. That's just Google Messages.

Google's strategy with RCS is to look like they're honestly trying to support an open standard - after trying to create a walled-garden with a half dozen proprietary messengers. However, I have a hard time trusting Google on this one. I remember Google pushing XMPP and federation with Google Talk. Lots of us gave them positive word of mouth because Google was offering us the open chat network we'd wanted. Once they got people to migrate off AIM and others, they closed it off.

In this case, is Google's RCS support even open? Can I create an RCS client? It looks like the answer is "no" (but I might be wrong). Reddit users are suggesting that you can only use Google Messages (or Samsung Messages on their devices). XDA Developers notes that Google made a special permission only available to Samsung for RCS. Even then, it looks like support for Samsung Messages might be dropped with Bell Mobility telling customers they'll have to use Google Messages for RCS.

Google has a history of shouting "we're the good guy with openness," while they plot how to close things off. Android was trumpeted as open and once Android was the only non-Apple option Google started putting everything into Google Play Services and using their essential apps to force phone makers into proprietary licensing agreements. They pushed XMPP just to burn it down. With RCS, it looks like they haven't even created something that works with third party apps from the start.

Plus, Google is controlling the RCS servers for a lot of carriers. The messages might be encrypted, but Google knows who is texting who with RCS.

If someone has better information on third-party access to RCS, I'd love to learn more. It seems like even Android fans are lamenting that RCS is restricted to the Google Messages app on Android. Maybe I'm missing something, but RCS seems like something Google co-opted because it was a "standard" and then decided that only they could build for that standard (at least on Android).

https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/znsrkz/an...

https://www.xda-developers.com/google-messages-rcs-api-third...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-rcs-messaging/