[M1ch431]

Citation needed. I'm not aware of any studies that highlight differences in brain structure of a "healthy" brain vs. a brain of somebody who has unmedicated first-episode schizophrenia/psychosis.

If somebody took anti-psychotics, especially for a long time, it's known that they affect brain structure and that invalidates any findings that the study has, unless they can account for the changes that the (for example) anti-psychotics produced. Which given our current state of science, and understanding of the brain, is unlikely.

[ohbleek]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181763/

>Initially during the prodrome, a change in brain structure seems to be present in the temporal lobe volume and cingulated. On follow-up in those who have gone onto a psychotic episode, further changes can be seen in the cingulate, temporal lobe, and parahippocampal gyrus.

Structural changes occur before an episode has even occurred.

[M1ch431]

Thanks so much for that. I appreciate the honesty and clarity of the authors in presenting their findings.

Upon a very, very brief read it still seems difficult for them (in my opinion) to find that schizophrenia is primarily genetic in nature when there still could be potential causative agents that only siblings share (the same house, the same food and water, the same household/generational chemical/drug use/exposure, etc.) which may yet explain the changes/differences. I will take a closer look when I have the time and look at the wealth of references they included (they do have some pretty large studies referenced that support their findings). Thanks again.

I just want to say that while I may seemingly appear to be particularly hostile to the physical causative angle or the genetic (or predictive) angle of mental illness, I just want to clarify that this is mostly because of the fears I have about the current/near-future clinical/societal implications of this being established, in my opinion, prematurely.

There's unarguably a lot of good that research can do in this area, however, I just hope that more understanding in these areas are reflected clinically by a massive diversity of treatments. Especially, laser-focused treatments that cause minimal side effects.

I don't think there's any arguing from me that if we were able to stop the progression of schizophrenia before first-episode psychosis (especially without using anti-psychotics long-term or at all) that it wouldn't be a good thing.

Or as other commenters pointed out, to stop these people who share these markers from doing things that might worsen/manifest their illness, like cannabis. Or researchers finding out how the endocannabinoid system is involved in the illness, including potential therapies (like tackling the systemic inflammation that is common in serious mental illness).

It's just a slippery slope if we go about this in the wrong way. Like forced treatment. Or applying treatments to other differences that may not cause distress to the individuals or inhibit their functioning or participation in society (like forcibly treating high functioning individuals who are on the autism spectrum).

Or incorrectly diagnosing schizophrenia/psychosis in one person and inappropriately treating them, when in reality there were two or three distinct diseases causing a similar illness or set of symptoms. Who knows, there is a distinct lack of knowing still in this field. I just know that the profit-motive needs to disappear before true progress and medicine can happen.