[turkeygizzard]

Wow, I've only read the abstract so far but this basically goes against all conventional research on this topic AFAIK. I read probably ~50 papers on this topic (maximal protein dosing) and emailed a few researchers about it as I was writing a book. I believe the saturation point for a relative dose for a single meal is generally held to be ~0.25g per kg of bodyweight. Of course, there are some obvious observable issues with this belief given that there are people who practice intermittent fasting and have no issues building muscle, so it'll be really interesting to see if this study replicates

EDIT: After skimming the paper, I don't see anything immediately wrong with it. But there are some important nuances to note: the subjects were all fasted and given milk protein (casein in milk protein is known to take longer to absorb than pure whey protein which is a popular choice for these studies), and the measurements were made after an hour of exercise. This would skew the results towards more protein sensitivity than in normal settings where a person is pretty much always somewhat well-fed and not always eating after exercise. This is still encouraging because the results for post-exercise protein metabolism have still indicated a much lower limit than a 100g dose. Their report that oxidation rates didn't increase significantly is also notable since the belief has generally been that excess protein is oxidized and burned for energy instead of being incorporated into muscle. However, it would've been nice for them to include a 50g group as well to see if the dose-response relationship was really still linear between 25-50-100

Ultimately, this result seems encouraging for increasing post-exercise protein consumption for muscle gain, but we shouldn't discount the fact that the subjects were fasted before exercise. It would be interesting to see this study prolonged over the course of a day with further protein ingestions to see if the area-under-the-curve of muscle protein synthesis would eventually equalize in both groups, or if the larger immediately-post-exercise dose made a lasting difference. Existing research seems to not indicate such an "anabolic window". I might speculate that there is a daily limit for protein ingestion, but it doesn't matter if you hit that limit in one meal or five. That said, I have previously come across a paper that found medium-sized, spaced out doses to be more effective than infrequent large doses and overly frequent small doses, so there's still more to discover here

[nkzd]

Can you summarize what does this mean for an average gym goer? Should I take protein immediately after workout?

[turkeygizzard]

Yeah, I think the least controversial takeaway is that you can afford to have a large protein shake immediately after workout. I personally don't think you need to. But this study and some others indicate that muscle responds best to protein consumption when it's in some post-exercise state (but it's unclear if that state is 30 minutes or 3 hours or longer etc). I'd say it's more important to focus on your overall daily consumption rather than the timing of it

[Modified3019]

A summary of my own looking into it is “don’t worry too much about it”.

For the average gym goer the most important thing is working out consistently to failure and periodically reevaluating your training so that it’s safe and optimal based on the latest research. How much protein you can shove in your face is rarely a concern, westerners get enough. Getting a bigger chest or shoulders when what you are doing isn’t working requires looking at your body mechanics and how to activate those muscle groups. As an example, I couldn’t squat for shit until I learned that I require a different stance than most people, due to how my hip sockets are angled (my feet naturally come to rest when standing at about a 80 degree angle, extremely wide compared to most)

Everything I’ve read seems to indicate that it’s probably ideal to eat something within a few hours after a heavy workout, but you don’t need to immediately rush down 2 scoops of protein shake or waste away. Excess protein doesn’t really hurt you either. Protein eaten is gradually absorbed throughout a surprisingly long time as it travels through the gut (the time of which varies greatly between people, I digest extremely slowly), which in practice can act like a “store” of amino acids despite the body not really having something dedicated for that purpose like fatty acids and carbohydrates. I haven’t seen studies on this, but I personally also suspect some amount protein is “stored” and released via gut bacteria, much like what happens with soil bacteria and nitrogen fertilizer. And that’s ignoring all the recycling of amino acids the body does anyways.

Likewise, muscle repair is a progressive demand over days, not an instant demand. Photos of muscle cells over time after a workout are illustrative of this.

Basically you don’t need to treat protein like a diabetic treats blood sugar.

For those people at an advanced enough level where they need to find optimizations to obtain more results, then yes, individual amino acids have metabolic effects that can likely be exploited. In fact, some amino acids (like leucine) can likely be a contributor of not just muscle gain, but also obesity because of how they work. Some people can benefit from restricting “protein” in order to lose weight, because they start burning body fat for fuel again. Likewise, fat isn’t just fat, but each fatty acid has its own complex waterfall of metabolic impacts (beware omega-6’s, which are very high in western raised pork and chicken fat).

Food can be thought of as a load of chemical signals for your body. So the above study isn’t surprising.

[loufe]

For anyone reading this in the future, please be aware the working out "to failure" is this posters' opinion. From my research, I'd tend to say it's actually not favoured in the current state of the art.

From what I understand, achieving (example) 80% of failure can achieve most of the same level of gains while avoiding a disproprionately significant amount of fatigue resulting from achieving full failure.

[loeg]

Just eat enough protein in total over the day. The "slam a protein shake immediately after working out" thing is bro science.

[pawelduda]

Depends whom you ask. I tried both and did not see any major difference between doing so right after or spacing it out

[brcmthrowaway]

book link?

[turkeygizzard]

Not published yet sadly. I'm close to signing a contract with a publisher that would see it get released in the summer. I've contemplated self-publishing though so it can see the light of day sooner