[GordonS]

Nice strawman you got there - as I'm sure you're aware, I didn't say anything of the sort. Hamas (or at least, Palestinian militants) definitely murdered and kidnapped civilians on Oct 7th - those atrocities are bad enough without having to make up stories of torture (released hostages say there were treated well), mass rape, burned civilians (we know know there were killed by tanks and helicopters), etc.

[nec4b]

It puzzles my mind somebody would whitewash and deny horrible horrible crimes Hamas committed not only to Israelis but also to its own people.

[GordonS]

And it boggles my mind that someone would still believe unrealistic atrocity propaganda that has been debunked even by Israel.

As I've said before, Hamas definitely murdered many civilians - that's a bad enough atrocity without the need to make up stories.

I feel we're squarely in non-HN territory now, so I bid you adieu.