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by TeaDude 915 days ago
I agree that we need a new - less crufty - standard to replace HTML/CSS/JS but there's another point which I feel has been sorely missed in previous efforts.

I want a FUN standard. I want to make cool looking sites that are relatively scalable based on user hardware.

Alternatives like Gopher and Gemini never really scratched that itch due to how sterile they are.
3 comments
jerf 915 days ago
The problem you have is that by defining a "FUN" standard, you've probably created a basin of attraction [1] for what is basically the web today. It doesn't take much before you've basically let the ocean in.

There are clearly many points between Gopher/Gemini and the modern web... but I'm not sure any of them are stable. Between the difficulty of keeping out features in a principled manner in what will inevitably become a group effort and how easy it is to accidentally spec something that turns out to be a lot more complicated than you thought it was, you're pretty much working in a space where the Horrors of the Web are lurking just outside your door, and you'd be surprised which missteps will let them in.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor

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radiator 915 days ago
This is very deep. I like this mathematical explanation of why we get either Gemini, which nobody uses, or the modern web.
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jerf 914 days ago
When people say math doesn't matter and is useless, I see it as rather akin to standing in Adam Savage's workshop and wondering why he has collected so much useless stuff and proudly declaring their inability to understand or utilize the contents.

As a bonus, here's another IMHO highly underrated gem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coevolution Not only are there characteristic patterns intrinsic to evolution (in all its forms, far beyond just biology), there are characteristic patterns to interacting evolving systems. And that's, like, basically everything in the world. Super useful tool.

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graypegg 915 days ago
OH yeah, thank you for saying that. Gemini was a short 1 month obsession of mine. I just hit this brick wall of "... oh... this is it?".

I do think HTML is a fun standard though. There's so much "big business productization" chained to it. Web companies announce updates to frameworks as if it's an apple keynote now. I think that gives a false impression of the "bones" of the web though. HTML/CSS is still fun! :) Nothing beats the visual-focus and short lag time between code->website in browser.

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squidbeak 915 days ago
The problem will always be that 'fun' rapidly develops complexity to support 'cool looking'.
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