[owenmarshall]

No!

In the US, case law has ended up more protective of people who invoke their right to an attorney than those who merely invoke their right to remain silent.

In certain cases the police can restart interrogations after invocation of a right to remain silent, but if you invoke the right to an attorney any interrogation must stop until your counsel is present. These exceptions are narrow, but “being interrogated by the police” is the last place to chance stumbling into one.

The magic words are: “I will not answer any questions without a lawyer present.”

[filoeleven]

Yeah. Also, the police are legally allowed to lie to you, but you are not legally allowed to lie to the police.

I’m not interested in lying to the police, but when I know that they can lie to me, it’s a big disincentive to say anything to them at all. This is a problem.

[mrandish]

As a pretty staunch civil libertarian, I agree with you about the asymmetry in rights. However, I'm curious about the statement:

> "you are not legally allowed to lie to the police."

I know that lying under oath in a court is perjury and in certain contexts some investigative agencies like the FBI can put you under oath and in that specific case materially false statements can be actionable. And I know that filing a false police report is against the law but I think that usually requires signing the report and it spells out that lying on the statement is perjury.

But, in the scenario of a police officer just walking up and asking you questions on a street corner, prior to arresting or detaining you, is anything you say about anything which is later deemed to be false or misleading cause for arrest? Maybe it is but I'm trying think of what law it would be violating. I do know that civil libertarians say that if a police officer talks to you, you can ask "Am I being detained?" and if they don't answer "Yes" you are free to just walk away.

My naive prior understanding is that things are more complicated and conditional than simply "Lying to a cop anytime, anywhere is always grounds for arrest and prosecution (even absent any other grounds for arrest)" but perhaps I was misinformed on this.

[bitwize]

If the police are feds, you can catch up to 5 years in the slammer for "making false statements" to them. This law is relatively recent (mid 90s) and was pretty much passed so that the FBI could nail, or twist the arms of, people they think committed a crime but have zero actual evidence against.

State laws about lying to police vary by state. Ask your lawyer.

[owenmarshall]

Popehat on 18 USC 1001, a good read:

https://www.popehat.com/2009/09/22/today-in-shut-up-moron-te...

[filoeleven]

Good point. I don’t know enough to comment further about the legality of lying to police as a person of interest or as a suspect (who hasn’t been Mirandized?)

It’s shameful though how many false police reports are not prosecuted because they fall in line with the perceived powers of police forces.

[sidewndr46]

"Interfering with the lawful duties of a public servant"

Note that the "lawful duties" portion is apocryphal.

[aomix]

The book You Have the Right to Remain Innocent talks about this for a good portion of it. There are nuances to simply shutting up, invoking the right to remain silent (implied by the 5th) and not speaking, invoking the 5th to not answer a question, and invoking the *6th* which is the right to a lawyer. The book agrees that invoking a lawyer is now the correct move since it puts some onus on law enforcement.

[sidewndr46]

No. At least in Louisiana the police can continue to interrogate you after asking to speak to an attorney.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/suspect-asks-for...

[drdaeman]

> I will not answer any questions without a lawyer present.

I'm curious. How do people get a lawyer, if they aren't exactly prepared for being questioned, but just somehow unexpectedly found themselves in some weird situation?

Somehow, I doubt most common folks already have an established lawyer (especially not knowing what sort of situation they may get into - as I get it, different lawyers specialize on different matters) and remember their phone number (OP reminds me that one probably doesn't want to unlock any phone). Or I'm wrong? What's the general approach here?

[owenmarshall]

First, invoke. Then one of two things will happen. The happy path is that the police can’t sustain an arrest, and you didn’t help them by talking. You’ll be released, and you can - and absolutely should - look for a lawyer on your own time.

Otherwise, you’ll be arrested and taken to jail for processing. Your bail will almost always be predetermined by a bail schedule. For minor crimes you can post bail to the jail and leave within hours. Some jails even take credit cards. Search for a lawyer on your own after you are out.

Otherwise the rules are varied across jurisdictions. “You get one call” is a TV trope” - but you can use any phone calls you are granted to secure an attorney. The state bar, as mentioned, will refer you. Call your family and have them secure one. Some jails have the yellow pages for your own selection. If you have a non-criminal attorney (a will, employment law, etc.) they can give you a referral.

[TheCleric]

Also, worse comes to worse, you can receive a free court provided lawyer. Though public defenders are so overworked, you may not see them until the day of your trial.

[sidewndr46]

That might actually be a good thing if the police are prohibited from interrogating the individual before the court appearance

[dharmab]

The state bar usually provides a service to help people find lawyers.