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by 3xnl 923 days ago
Why is this called prompt engineering not prompt something else? I feel like the word engineering is being abused
9 comments

Engineering is the cumbersome real world tweaking and trial-and-error that engineers do after they take over from the scientists, in the hopes of finding techniques that will let them produce something robust and useful in the real world. Seems to fit the reality pretty well here, to be honest.
> Engineering is the cumbersome real world tweaking and trial-and-error

That's not the only a part engneering.

Engineering is finding a model that can acurately predict the dynamics of a system similar to yours, using that model to make predictions about your specific system and then building and testing that system. This is then done iteratively (i.e trail and error).

Just tweaking a system without a model of how it works is not engineering, it's tinkering.

> the cumbersome real world tweaking and trial-and-error

There are very many fields and activities that do just that but are not called Engineering.

If we go by that, Excel users should also be referred to as Excel Engineers,

Language is not mathematics and constantly evolves. All you need to do is look up the etymology of the word to understand why your dissaproval is ultimately a waste of effort. The one thing that has remained consistent since the word's inception is that it is associated with operating or implementing machinery or technology in general.
Reading a three page document to understand how to format questions for model should not lead it to be referred to as Engineering

> Language is not mathematics and constantly evolves. All you need to do is look up the etymology of the word to understand why your dissaproval is ultimately a waste of effort.

I have noticed from replies that term is already enjoyed by all stakeholders, so I have no energy, time or interest to show my worthless disapproval anywhere else. You should though look up how it came to be referred to as prompt engineering. You will be surprised

I think if you were more into sales engineering it would all just make sense.
At work we’ve taken to calling it “context composition”, which for us has been a much more useful way to think about what it is we’re actually doing.
> I feel like the word engineering is being abused reply

Well yeah, this has been happening for a long time. As someone with a Electrical and Computer Engineering degree it used to bother me. Now I joke that the only real engineers are operating locomotives.

You're essentially programming using English. Anything that isn't mentioned explicitly - the model will have a tendency to misinterpret. Being extremely exact is very similar to software engineering when coding for CPU's.
I don't think so. It still remains that you are asking a question?
1. The text is _engineered_ to evoke a specific response.

2. LLM's can do more than answer questions.

3. Question answering usually doesn't need any prompt engineering, since you're essentially asking an opinion where any answer is valid (different characters will say different things to same question, and that's valid).

4. LLM's aren't humans, so it misses nuance a lot and hallucinates facts confidently, even GPT4, so you need to handhold it with "X is okay, Y is not, Z needs to be step by step", etc.

I want, for example, to make it write an excerpt from a fictional book, but it gets a lot of things wrong, so I add more and more specifics into my prompt. It doesn't want to swear, for example - I engineer the prompt so that it thinks it's okay to do so, etc.

"Engineer" is a verb here, not a noun. It's perfectly valid to say "Prompt Engineering", since this is the same word used in 'The X was engineered to do Y' sentence.

Anthropic also have their prompt engineering documentation - https://docs.anthropic.com/claude/docs/constructing-a-prompt - this article gives examples of bad and good prompts.

>The text is _engineered_ to evoke a specific response.

My grandma can say she engineered Google search to give search results from her location.

> "Engineer" is a verb here, not a noun. It's perfectly valid to say "Prompt Engineering", since this is the same word used in 'The X was engineered to do Y' sentence. >

You guys are just looking for ways to make people feel like they are doing something big in prompting AI models for whatever tasks, even with custom instructions etc

I know the word Engineer can be used in various ways, "John engineered his way to premiership", "The way she engineered that deal" etc, if it's the way it's being used here fine then. There is a reason why graphic designers have never called themselves graphic engineers

> Anthropic also have their prompt engineering documentation - https://docs.anthropic.com/claude/docs/constructing-a-prompt - this article gives examples of bad and good prompts.

This just means that the phrase is already out there. Nothing more.

Your grandma can say she engineered Google but clearly you cant because all it takes is a few minutes to look at the history of the term to answer your own questions. I realize some folks are salty they paid a ton of money for the idea that a piece of paper gives them some sort of prestige. And it does, to 0.001 of humans in the world who are associated with whatever cul...I mean institution that sold you something that is free, with a price premium and a cherry of interest on top. All so you would feel satisfied someone, anyone, finally acknowledged your identity. A great deal of the engineers that built the modern internet never got a formal degree. But they did get something better: real practical experience attained via tinkering.

And so it is.

> I realize some folks are salty they paid a ton of money for the idea that a piece of paper gives them some sort of prestige.

Actually the paper does, but my issue is not papers, rather knowledge. The level of knowledge needed for something to be called engineering

And I have noticed your answers relate prompt engineering to software engineering/programming questions. But if you look at that OpenAI doc, even asking to summarise an article is prompt engineering.

> A great deal of the engineers that built the modern internet never got a formal degree. But they did get something better: real practical experience attained via tinkering.

We have a lot of carpenters, builders, mechanics with no formal education that we call Engineers in our everyday life without any qualm because of their knowledge and experience. Don't look at it only from the lens of software engineering.

I still maintain prompting an AI model doesn't need to be called engineering.

If you are a developer doing it through an API or whichever way, you still doing whatever you've been doing before prompting entered the chat.

Maybe the term will be justified in the future.

Side Note: This conversation led me to Wikipedia (noticed some search results along the way). This prompt business is already lit, I shouldn't have started it

Having to iterate on the prompt to get good, consistent results on a variety of inputs definitely feels like an engineering task
Not really. Though I know these days people use Engineer for all sorts of things
Yeah, next thing you know someone will come up with the term "Software Engineer".
Wasted effort at sarcasm. We actually even nowadays have another nice term called software construction. Which I am fine with.

You can't compare the effort and knowledge

I would have preferred prompt crafting.
The metaphor is more based on social engineering.
this could be wrong and i've missed some of the timeline, but from what i've seen "prompt engineering" started out as a sarcastic joke on twitter about how software engineering roles were going to be reduced to prompt engineering. and then people took the term and started using it seriously.
This can explain it. There is no other reason why one would consider that engineering