[reaperducer]

The longer you live, and the more things you do, the more you realize that checks are still alive and well. You still need checks for:

  Charitable donations - Many charities maximize every penny, and electronic contributions eat into that.

  Paying my accountant - Good accountants make every penny count, and aren't interested in tithing from their revenue to credit card companies.

  Tipping the paper boy

  Tipping the doorman (Though recently, I've switched to cash for this, as it looks better in a Christmas card)

  Business license renewal in certain cities

  Some of my recent real estate transactions have required checks to be written to various local authorities, county clerks, etc.

  Making IRS payments without a fee

  Paying the gas bill.  My gas company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card.

  Paying the rent.  My building's management company charges $20 + a percentage to pay by debit card, or $50 + a percentage to pay by credit card.  If I pay my bill with a check, there's no surcharge. If I pay by credit card, I have to pay another $113.

  Paying the electric bill.  The electric company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card.

  Passport renewal fee.  Renewing a passport by mail in the United States *requires* a check or a money order.

[fn-mote]

> Making IRS payments without a fee

I think you are exaggerating, conflating "checks" with "electronic transfers from my (checking) account".

IRS has an excellent electronic debit system. Sure, the money comes from my checking account. Are you saying that is the same as a check?

> Paying the gas bill. My gas company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card. > Paying the electric bill. The electric company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card.

e-pay by the bank... is the same as a check? Maybe...

The whole thing about the rent is surprising. I'm surprised you don't get billed for checks. I had a direct-debit-only landlord recently. Surcharge for everything else.

You forgot: your cable company also wants direct access to your bank account and will give you $5/month for the privilege. So consider that a fee for paying any other way.

[lh7777]

> IRS has an excellent electronic debit system.

They actually have two! Direct Pay and EFTPS use ACH (electronic check) and are both free.

Personally, there's very little anymore that I need to pay by physical check -- almost everyone takes credit cards, and for those that don't (or who charge more than 2% for credit card transactions), I use ACH.

> I'm surprised you don't get billed for checks.

Not too many years ago, I had a landlord (a big property management company) who charged a fee for electronic payments. I forget how much exactly, but it was ridiculous -- like $10 or $20 per payment. For them, I used my bank's online bill pay, which behind the scenes is just the bank printing out a paper check and mailing it to the payee. I bet they've switched to free ACH payments by now.

Lately, the only cases I can think of where I actually pull out a check book and write out a check are to pay (1) a contractor (electrician, landscaper, etc.) and (2) for a campsite at a self-service campground. Most parks take credit cards (just write your payment information on the registration slip) but a few don't. I'll pay cash if I have exact change, but as I don't make a habit of carrying around lots of small bills it's helpful to have checks just in case.

[devilbunny]

Some banks still charge per payment for online transfers/bills and don’t for checks. As my cost per check is around 25 cents, plus a first-class stamp and an envelope if it’s mailed, anything more than $1 is a reason to use a check.

[robocat]

That sounds like the path dependent consequences of the oddities of the US banking system.

Cheques cause significant processing costs*, so market forces idealistically should eventually select for quicker and less risky payment forms.

Cheques are no longer used in New Zealand because businesses didn't want to receive them once better (from the businesses' POV) forms of payment existed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38159600

Australia is also cancelling cheques: "Earlier this month, the government announced it was following New Zealand, Denmark, the Netherlands and others, closing our cheque system down by 2030" - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-21/cash-almost-gone-aust...

* From the Ozzie article: "The average cost of everything that had to happen to process a cheque exceeds $5 per payment"

[w3ll_w3ll_w3ll]

I don't undertand why there is not a better alternative in US, like a bank transfer/wire. In the EU, these transfers are often free at most banks, or at most, they incur a fee of 1 or 2 euros.

[gosub100]

There is, Zelle works pretty well for smaller amounts. Paypal jinxed themselves early on by lobbying so hard to be "not-a-bank" (even though they do everything a bank does). If they hadn't used their not-a-bank status to screw so many people for so long (I think they're better now, not sure), they could have been the de-facto payment processor by now, at least for debit.

[4ndrewl]

In the UK it's highly unusual to pay for anything by cheque these days. The vast majority of banks will now charge for cheque deposits for business accounts (perhaps even personal accounts, it's probably been nearly half a decade since I've had a cheque).

[jrmg]

The UK planned, in 2009, to phase out cheques by 2018 - but backtracked in 2011: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/frequently-asked-question...

[pseingatl]

In most US banks, sending a wire is an "event" since wires often go overseas and so KYC, suspicious transactions and sanctions are implicated. The fact that someone is sending a wire--as opposed to a multinational--is itself evidence of a suspicious transaction.

[devilbunny]

The only wire I have ever done was a process that I do not wish to repeat. I was paying for a car for my wife. Now, both our names are on the account, but my bank could only do it in my name (because I was the one at the bank, she was in another state at the time getting the car). The manager had to process the whole thing because it was over a certain amount (probably 10k, but it was well over that). Took twenty minutes. Then the dealership required me to indicate in writing that I had no lien (so paperwork would be correct). Then I had to wait until the county tax office (which collects all vehicle taxes) told me they had all the paperwork and spend twenty minutes there doing all of that.

I probably spent four or five hours dealing with the paperwork engendered by just giving them money for a car. Transactions handled locally would have amounted to half that at most. Get cashier’s check from my bank, give to dealer, leave with car and go to tax office, hand them paperwork, leave with tag.

[reaperducer]

I guess the opposite could also be asked: Why doesn't the EU use something proven, durable, redundant, and sensible like checks instead of relying on fragile computers that have thousands more points of failure?

[IshKebab]

Because cheques are unreliable, insecure, slow, inconvenient and expensive, and electronic bank transfers solve literally all of those issues. What kind of a stupid question is that?

Do you think cheques are not processed by computers?

[reaperducer]

cheques are unreliable, insecure, slow, inconvenient and expensive, and electronic bank transfers solve literally all of those issues.

I'll give you "slow," but it depends on how you define slow. Checks where I am often clear in a day. Rarely longer than two days.

As for the rest, no, those problems are not solved by replacing checks with electronic transfers. They still exist, just in different forms.

And I never said checks aren't processed by computers. I stated that replacing checks with computers adds more points of failure.

Or do you somehow not notice the litany of things that go wrong with computers every single day right on the front page of HN.

Just because it's all electronic doesn't mean it's failsafe.

[IshKebab]

> Checks where I am often clear in a day. Rarely longer than two days.

That's extremely slow. Electronic transfers are basically instant these days.

> I stated that replacing checks with computers adds more points of failure.

It literally doesn't. A cheque is one big point of failure that doesn't exist with electronic transfers.

> Or do you somehow not notice the litany of things that go wrong with computers every single day right on the front page of HN.

"Computers" aren't a single thing. Bank transfers are ridiculously reliable. Far more reliable than cheques. And as I've already explained, cheques are processed by computers too so you aren't somehow skipping the possibility of programming bugs by using them.

[lxgr]

I do many of these things, yet I've never had to use a check for them. Usually there is a free ACH debit payment option these days.

But maybe I've just also been lucky with my service providers – all of mine support at least free debit payments; quite a few of my utilities even accept credit cards without a fee.

[jrmg]

I have never considered tipping by check - and have occasionally stiffed people who deserved a tip because I didn’t have enough cash. Is using checks for this really a thing people do?

When doing this do you name of the person you’re tipping, or just give them a check with the first line blank?

[reaperducer]

I don't do it for everyday tips. But for the annual Christmas tips, yes. Like to the doormen or the parking garage valet. Anyone that would get a card, I think it's OK to put a check inside.

But not for tipping the bellhop at a hotel. I think that would be weird.

As for writing checks to people whose name you don't know (or in my case, there are certain doormen whose names I would surely misspell), you just write "Cash" on the name line.

[jrmg]

Oh, man! Now that you say this I realize that I knew that you could write checks to ‘cash’, but it’s been _so long_ since I’ve even thought about this I forgot!

[astrange]

> Making IRS payments without a fee

This one is actually kinda convenient for credit card point churning. For one thing, if you overpay you know you'll get it back.

[WalterBright]

I pay for things with credit card if they don't tack on a fee for it. I pay with a check if they do.