[fundatus]

Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.

[Closi]

And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence?

I disagree with calling the top level of Autopilot "FSD" by the way - I think that is misleading. But Autopilot - I think that's a fair term personally considering the context and historical use.

[alistairSH]

And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence?

In the US? No, we don't. Even ignoring that a driver's license is treated more as a right than a perk... Consumers are absolutely NOT trained on the nuances of any particular car's UI, systems, etc.

An airline pilot absolutely IS trained on those nuances and can ONLY operate planes in which they've trained. And they get periodic check-rides from FAA examiners. And, as we saw with the 737Max, failure to train on those nuances can have deadly consequences.

[Closi]

Well again, Autopilot probably is an accurate word then - because consumers should clearly know the limitations and nuances of Autopilot to safely operate it, and a failure to understand those limitations can clearly have deadly consequences.

Is the argument "You can't call it Autopilot because Autopilot refers to a complex system that requires a skilled operator and needs people to pay constant attention"?

[alistairSH]

I don't really care what it's named. I care about the implications of the system in the real world. Humans are notoriously bad at paying attention to boring tasks. This applies to pilots as well as ordinary drivers (thus the massive amount of training, redundant operators, and very details operators manuals/procedures that apply to ATPs). Tesla released a system that encourages people to operate their car with less than 100% focus. That's bad.

I'm not aware of similar reports of crashes/deaths with systems like Subaru's EyeSight or Honda's SensingSuite. Or, on the other end of the spectrum, Mercedes's Drive Pilot.

[Closi]

Fine, we are agreed then.

I’m just talking about the name because that’s what this thread was about.

[newaccount74]

Drivers do not need to get training and a license for driver assistance software.

Pilots need to get training and certification for autopilot before they can use it.

[oblio]

> And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence?

At the level of airline pilots???

This discussion has happened many, many times here on HN. Tesla's marketing is extremely misleading (and it's not the only case).

[Closi]

But what's the broader point here, is it that the word "Autopilot" implies you need care or training?

Because if so, it sounds like Autopilot would be a good word.

I think the term "Full Self Driving" is misleading, but comparing it to an Autopilot (i.e. a system which requires pilot input and care) seems correct.

[semiquaver]

Do the driving licensure requirements in any state require knowing what the capabilities of Tesla Autopilot are?

[Closi]

They don't currently, but they clearly could if they thought that was required.

[kortilla]

“People are morons” is not a justification for claiming they aren’t equivalent when they are.

[alistairSH]

But they aren't equivalent.

The airline system requires thousands of hours of training total (and many hours on a specific type/model of plane) to operate.

Driving a car requires no such training.

[kortilla]

The training has nothing to do with the capabilities of the system.

The aircraft requires hundreds of hours to operate without autopilot. Autopilot isn’t what imposes the training requirement.

[ryanklee]

The justification isn't that people are morons, it's that the same word can have different meanings on different contexts.

[kortilla]

In what transportation context does “autopilot” mean it works without supervision? I’ll wait.

[mavhc]

They expect to not have to pay $12000 for something called Full Self Driving, and still get it?

Let's check the first paragraph of the Autopilot section in the manual:

Autopilot is a suite of advanced driver assistance features that are intended to make driving safer and less stressful. None of these features make Model 3 fully autonomous or replace you as the driver

And on the same page:

Warning Basic Autopilot is a hands-on feature. Keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times and be mindful of road conditions, surrounding traffic, and other road users (such as pedestrians and cyclists). Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury, or death.

[adamsb6]

In most states no training at all is required to operate a boat, and I don’t think there are any specific requirements around autopilot.

The earliest autopilot for boats was built in the 1800s.

[lesuorac]

Which states are you referring to? Locally you need a certificate for motorized craft and it seems like almost every other state is in this situation.

You can get the certificate after taking training but I imagine there is some way to test out of it.

--

The training doesn't need to be months long though. Try renting a jet-ski; they'll give you a very quick training but it's still present. Although jet-skis are probably not long enough to qualify as motorized boats in a lot of states.

https://www.americasboatingcourse.com/lawsbystate.cfm?lid=50

[adamsb6]

Thanks for the correction. My own state of Washington mandated boater education only about ten years ago, I assumed it was an early mover given how much navigable water we have.

[dzhiurgis]

Sweden and New Zealand doesn't require any licence to operate a boat which is great. But try leaving marina without any experience and your boat neighbour will stop ya or at least help you get your feet wet.

[mensetmanusman]

As, but both sets are trained to different levels on a sliding scale. Shades of grey make language complicated.