[__blockcipher__]

> but there is no right whatsoever to blockade Gaza's access by sea

This by the way is an important fact to bring up when the claim that "Israel left Gaza many years ago and the problem didn't improve". In actuality, they withdrew their occupying army but still kept up a blockade, including a literal cap to the number of calories allowed to enter the country, which I can only interpret as a population control measure. That's of course in addition to all the other stuff they kept doing, but that's probably a discussion for another day.

I'd note that the GP was careful to specifically mention Israel having withdrawn its military from Gaza which is true, so I'm not disputing the veracity of their claim on that specifically.

[nahumfarchi]

That is a weird tangent to take. The population size in Gaza nearly doubled in the last 20 years, reaching approximately 2 million (). If the sea blockade is a population control measure, it's a highly ineffective one. Did ever you stop to consider that it's, maybe, I don't know, to stop them from bringing in stuff to shoot at us?

() https://www.ft.com/content/7b618433-ba5f-4e92-a3e0-d5d41d6d1...

[__blockcipher__]

I'm amazed that you avoided addressing the specific fact that they quite literally cap the number of calories allowed to come into the Gaza Strip.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/world/middleeast/israel-c...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-milita...

[nahumfarchi]

And you're ignoring the fact that our neighbors are hostile towards us and share a border with another country.

[h3rsko]

Israels next door neighbor calls for its total destruction and routinely launches rockets at its cities. In what world would they not blockade them?

[tsimionescu]

Did the UK blockade Ireland when the IRA was routinely conducting terror attacks in Northern Ireland? Did Spain institute controls on the amount of calories that could be imported into its Basque region when the separatists there were routinely committing acts of terror?

Some behaviors are simply unacceptable - and the current blockade has been found to be illegal by the UN time and time again, or at least would have been without US vetos.

[ashirusnw]

declassified documents revealed how in a 1987 meeting British officials raised the prospect of erecting a physical border along the entire frontier between Northern Ireland and the Republic

The IRA is a good example of how to deal with terrorism. You don't compromise. You don't have Northern Ireland back to the Irish and bow to terrorism. Instead you strike hard and eventually they'll make peace.

[tsimionescu]

The Gaza blockade is not about the border wall. It's about preventing any access into or out of Gaza over sea or over the Egyptian border.

The equivalent would have been to erect a border wall, then send the British navy to intercept any ship going into or out of Ireland, and signing agreements with other EU countries to ensure they enforce the same terms for air travel. This is what Israel is doing to Gaza.

[biorach]

> The IRA is a good example of how to deal with terrorism. You don't compromise

I'm Irish. That's not an accurate description. There very much was a compromise, on all sides. One that both sides in the current conflict could learn from.

[Log_out_]

Well they starved them during the potatoe famine. All this who started the tit for tat is futile.

Stable government in power is needed. Which then can reduce violence by agreements stepping back in lockstep from violence. Pre requisite for that are stable societies not ramping up for loopdeformation showdowns.

[nvm0n2]

The IRA was a terrorist group, not the official government of Ireland. During WW2 the Allies did in fact blockade Germany.

The blockade is legitimate and justified. The Palestinians do things like take water pipes sent as aid - which were allowed to be imported - dig them up and turn them into rockets. What do you think they'd do if they were able to import more freely?

[nico]

> take water pipes sent as aid - which were allowed to be imported - dig them up and turn them into rockets

This is not true. They did dig up pipes to make rockets, but they were the pipes from Israeli settlements. Settlements that Israel destroyed so Palestinians couldn’t inhabit them

> What do you think they'd do if they were able to import more freely?

Be more at peace, feel like they matter, like the world cares about them and that they can be a part of it without having to ask for permission from Israel

If anything, the end of the blockade would probably bring more peace and stability to everyone in the region

[nvm0n2]

I read that the pipes they dug up were sent as EU aid, which if true would mean they didn't (all) come from old settlements.

> Be more at peace

We have fundamentally different interpretations of what happened in October, and the dancing in the Gazan streets that accompanied it.

[tsimionescu]

The IRA was also not being fought by the Irish government.

Blockades are an act of war, so yes, it's not unexpected or illegal that the Allies were blockading Germany while at war. But Israel is claiming not to be at war with Palestine (or at least was before the current invasion). They in fact keep claiming that military occupation of Palestine ended 20 years ago.

The fact that Hamas can turn water pipes into rockets is somewhat irrelevant. The obvious fact is that, as long as it is impossible for Palestinians to live a prosperous life because of this occupation, some part of their population will want to retaliate. Peace in the region can't start without ending this blockade. Israel's Iron Dome can already protect from huge numbers of Palestinian rockets. It is generally the Palestinians who are defenseless in the face of Israeli attacks (as can be seen in the current invasion, as well as past protests and retaliation).

[js212]

So instead of Hamas digging tunnels to protect themselves they could be digging bomb shelters? Or should they not have a duty to protect their own people. They don’t even provide education or healthcare to their own population instead they use that money to line their pockets and build pipe bombs. How many Hamas billionaires are there?

[js212]

The IRA attacks were nothing like Hamas. https://oct7th.org

[tsimionescu]

October 7th is the worse attack since the war. The blockade has been in place for almost 20 years now.

[Hikikomori]

Is it?

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/7/timeline-israels...

[neoromantique]

UN has proved itself to be severely biased towards Israel time and time again, so referring to it as some sort of source is weird.

[runarberg]

In this context the UN is simply the governing body of international law. It holds no mechanism of enforcement and is wowed to non-interference and impartiality. When the UN finds a blockade illegal it simply means that it violates the international laws it self has set. You can think of this like a supreme court ruling inside your own jurisdiction, just between states as opposed to people.

There is no bias here, just law and interpretations on these laws.

If this were the security council that would be another issue however.

[mandmandam]

Criticizing Israel doing ethnic cleansing and war crimes stuff is not the same as being "severely biased".

[ashirusnw]

The "blockade" was Israel protecting its borders once Hamas seized control. And it's not a blockade as one side borders Egypt.

For much of the time, Israel allowed goods through the tough restrictions on what types of materials were allowed in started once Hamas started tunneling into Israel to commit attacks.

Very recently, Israel increased significantly the number of work permits for Gazans to work in Israel in the mistaken belief that Hamas and Gazans were getting comfortable with improved economy and this would gradually lead to deradicalisation and eventual peace. The other estimated the humanity of Hamas who it turns out were actually planning barbarism.

[dragonwriter]

> And it's not a blockade as one side borders Egypt.

The fact that Israel has an agreement with Egypt governing that border crossing and preventing imports other than as approved by Israel undermines the "its not a blockade because one border touches Egypt" argument.