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by biorach 919 days ago
> Hamas need to agree that Israel has the right to exist.

Agreed

And maybe Israel needs to agree that Palestine has the right to exist

2 comments

Israel is a democracy made up of various parties with a whole spectrum of opinions. Some are for a two state solution (center-left), some for a one state solution in the form of "greater israel" (hard right, fringe elements if you ask me), and others that honestly just don't give it much thought. Hamas, on the other hand, is quite ideological about its stance with regards to the destruction of Israel.
> Hamas, on the other hand, is quite ideological about its stance with regards to the destruction of Israel.

> Israel is a democracy made up of various parties with a whole spectrum of opinions.

That may be so but the Israeli state as a whole has been quite consistent over the last few decades in its systematic destruction of any political or geographical possible basis of a Palestinian state, be it in the West Bank or Gaza.

Not true. There have been serious peace attempts and real changes in every decade since 1967.
True.

However as far as I can tell the settlements in the West Bank have grown through every government since the occupation - something which fundamentally undermines any moves towards a resolution.

Any attempt at peace has poor prospects if a significant part of civil society and army is dead set on colonisation.

Any yes, I'm aware of the complexities of Israeli politics and society.

Before Netanyahu there were at least four prime ministers - Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak, Shimon Peres, and Yitzhak Rabin - who've made honest attempts at peace. Not to mention Ariel Sharon who has, despite being a hard right-winger, lead the disengagement from Gaza (at a tremendous political cost). You seem to be placing the responsibility for these failures entirely on one side.
> Ariel Sharon who has, despite being a hard right-winger, lead the disengagement from Gaza

This was not an attempt to further the peace process. It was motivated by the expense and difficulty of a military occupation of a densely populated urban area.

> You seem to be placing the responsibility for these failures entirely on one side.

Please, no need for that. I'm aware of Hamas' efforts to counter any moves towards peace. And of the effects of the suicide bombing campaign.

Similarly any talk of peace from the Israeli government is meaningless while settlement of the West Bank continues.

> Similarly any talk of peace from the Israeli government is meaningless while settlement of the West Bank continues.

The same can be said of the terror attacks. I strongly agree that the settlements are an obstacle to peace and apologize if my comment came off as aggressive. But you have to realize that this is a deadlock. No Israeli leader can stop the settlements as long as there are terror attacks, and no Palestinian leader can stop the terror attacks as long as there are settlements. That is our tragedy I suppose.

The Hamas charter literally says that Israel will exist:

>It advocated for a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders, describing this as a "formula of national consensus".

1967 borders means two state.

The full quote

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

You are aware in Islam there’s a concept of God dealing with the oppressors, right?
What you're apparently referring to is slight change in Hamas charter in 1997.

In fact, what they actually said was "Hamas advocates the liberation of all of Palestine but is ready to support the state on 1967 borders without recognising Israel or ceding any rights"

i.e. they would support the creation a Palestinian state within 1967 borders in the interim but not give up their fight for the rest of Israel.

This "softening" (as one left-wing newspaper called it apparently unironically) was in contrast with their previous stance which would reject a Palestinian state offer if it was based 1967 borders.

They have never gone back on their stated aim to reconquer all of Israel and never indicated they will tolerate Israel existing.