[taurusnoises]

TW: Look up any pics online of people actually on the brink of starvation, and you will immediately see how inaccurate a description this is for a way of life that was dominant for the vast majority of time modern humans have been wandering the planet.

- Agriculture: 10,000 years ago - Hunter-gatherers: 200,000 years ago

[hef19898]

Starvation was the extreme end, constant malnutrition the norm rather than the exception so.

And yes, that is a constant threat for the few true hunter-hatherer societies still left. Or why do you think they are so few in number? Hint, it is not an abundance of food.

[parl_match]

> constant malnutrition the norm rather than the exception so

it was not an easy life, for sure. but, "constant malnutrition" is also incorrect.

[hef19898]

That's not what, e.g., tooth and bone samples tell us. Those tell us that everyone from this period, and as far as the early mosern / renessaince period, went through multiple periods of being under nourished, aka suffering hunger, during their lifetimes.

[slothtrop]

> it was not an easy life, for sure.

Then it wasn't play.

[parl_match]

I didn't say it was continual hard times, did I? I just said it wasn't easy.

[titanomachy]

Is “constant malnutrition” the norm for animals living in the wild? Is the average lion or grizzly malnourished? Even in pre-history, humans were already the most effective predators on the planet, and megafauna were more plentiful then.

[jjk166]

The average lion is dead. Starvation is an extremely common cause of death in the wild. Nearly every animal dies either directly from starvation, injury in an attempt at gaining food, or predation (which of course is something else trying to gain food). 50% of lion cubs die due to starvation in their first year alone. When you see healthy lions in their prime, you're only seeing the winners.

Similarly in hunter gatherer societies you don't see many malnourished individuals, you see graves.

[hef19898]

Comparing the average life span of wild animals and their brethren living lives at Zoos, pets or otherwise protected enviroments allowing them to die of old age, I'd say yes.

[kiliantics]

animals living in zoos actually tend to die younger than their counterparts in the wild so you have basically made their point for them

it also suggests that we in modern society are basically domesticated/in a zoo compared with our hunter-gatherer ancestors, which doesn't really sound like the better option to me

[Cthulhu_]

I suspect it's people confusing individuals with the species. The individual suffered, the species survived and evolved... eventually, we still have a long way to go.

[slothtrop]

> Is “constant malnutrition” the norm for animals living in the wild?

No, but struggle is.

[defrost]

> Or why do you think they are so few in number?

Missionaries and colonisers, at least that was the case in this part of the world.

Before M&C hunter-gatherers were everywhere: https://mgnsw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/map_col_high...

Afterwards, not so much.

[ToucanLoucan]

> Starvation was the extreme end, constant malnutrition the norm rather than the exception so.

And now we're bringing that back with the lack of money causing the exact same thing, though IMO it's more offensive because the food needed to resolve the problem is literally right in front of the starving people, they just can't have it because they have earned insufficient value credit.

Or, if they have enough for it, they can have nutrient-void shaped corn "food" that their bodies can't process and will make them fat while also simultaneously not actually sustaining them and leaving them even worse off by some measures.

[klooney]

People are dying from excess calories in the West, they are absolutely not starving to death en masse.

[ToucanLoucan]

Man does not live by calories alone. Calorie-dense nutrient-void food causes obesity and also starves the afflicted body of necessary vitamins, proteins and the like.

[BurningFrog]

People on the brink of starvation are not actually starving. So they look and are pretty healthy.

[FrustratedMonky]

The US, where 'normal' weight is classified as starvation. People are so huge that any thin person must be starving, or anorexic.

[FrustratedMonky]

US - "Look at the poor natives starving"

Native - "What, we're just healthy"