[hifreq]

While I agree that the reduction in the role of religion in the US is partially to blame for the increase in severe cases of drug addition, the idea that we need to bring religion back essentially to control people is extremely patronizing. Basically, we are saying that some people are too stupid to live productively if they are not controlled by fairy tales.

This is the same approach as we are seeing in the "far left" bubble in the context of this issue: street drug addicts have no responsibilities and agency, the society has to accommodate their every whim, including ignoring all illegal activities they are engaged in.

Until we acknowledge that benefits come with responsibilities we are not going to solve this.

[dumpHero2]

It's naive to see religion as fairy tales. If used correctly, the tales are a medium of communication to instill values, discipline and morals in the masses.

[hifreq]

The fundamental reason and ground for these morals will remain in fairy tales. You don't see how divisive and fragile that is? This is fundamentally wrong, even if it used to work effectively.

Surely there is another way? Stronger families, philosophy, sports, education? Humanism over religion - the only truly universal approach.

[anon291]

It's not fairy tales. Its human need for attachment to something greater. America has not filled that with anything else. The previous flag waving civic nationalism has become demonized so now there's nothing.

[redserk]

Religion is far from the only venue to explore the purpose and meaning of one's life.

I think religion is declining because people are discovering there are many ways to perform self-discovery and practice fulfillment.

The only aspect of religion that has been beneficial to modern society is providing a social venue for others to interact. This can be achieved by building stronger neighborhoods and encouraging the development of more welcoming social venues -- something that I think is the cure to America's loneliness epidemic.

[anon291]

> I think religion is declining because people are discovering there are many ways to perform self-discovery and practice fulfillment.

Let's suppose this were true. If, as you say, it's all about purpose and meaning, then we would expect that although everyone's conception of these things is different, it would still provide the same benefit. However, this is not what we find. Markers of purpose and meaning (such as suicide rate, depression, etc) are getting worse, not better.

So we're forced to come to terms with a few possible conclusions, none of which are very good for your point of view. Either the systems people are coming up with are insufficient to achieve the same goals or people are not coming up with their own system and are left to flounder.

> This can be achieved by building stronger neighborhoods and encouraging the development of more welcoming social venues -- something that I think is the cure to America's loneliness epidemic.

How is Europe doing on these indicators? Or anywhere else?

[hifreq]

> America has not filled that with anything else

That's not an issue that America has to solve (i.e. the government or the society). It's an individual need that every individual is responsible for.

[BizarreByte]

> It's an individual need that every individual is responsible for.

You shouldn't be surprised then when vast amounts of people fail to fill a hole that for the vast majority of human history was filled for them.

I honestly believe most people simply aren't capable of making their on meaning or purpose out of nothing.

[hifreq]

I am not surprised by that in the slightest, and I agree that most people struggle with that, myself included. It is THE struggle of our lives.

Being told as a child that if you take drugs you will go to hell is not a meaningful alternative. Not for incredibly complex thinking beings that we are.

Submitting to Jesus, being a part of the "right" religious group is not a benefit to the human race as a whole. It's poison, promoted by power hungry maniacs.

[jasonfarnon]

Does America have to solve it if America destroyed it?

[hifreq]

Our maturing world (not just the US) is starting to recognize that religion is BS. We can't go back to relying on religion for keeping our bad instincts at bay. The influence of religion is and has been low in many European countries for decades, which did not result in an increase in homelessness we are seeing in the US.

Social programs, education, keeping corporations in check - these are meaningful alternatives to the idea that we need to bring Jesus back to control the population.

[matrix87]

I'm pretty sure they anticipated this attitude in Revelation 3:15

Indifference is worse than extreme atheism or fundamentalism because those two options are actually concerned about others

The indifferent person could care less whether you believe or don't, it's your own "individual responsibility", they owe nothing to you and you owe nothing to them

Widespread indifference will bring about the slow dismantlement of society

[justworkout]

East Asia and parts of Europe have quite a few people who are entirely apathetic towards religion. Drug addicts aren't out and open in those regions.

I've really only witnessed such open drug abuse in countries with strong Christian influence, e.g. the US and Latin America. Might be worth investigating why widespread debilitating drug abuse stems from that background.

[hifreq]

I mean, they anticipated the effect of eating shellfish and allowing women to speak up in Whatever X:YY, is this going to end the world as we know it as well?

Finding purpose and our place in the world is our individual responsibility. Don't confuse it with the lies of eternal heaven at the cost of total submission in this life that your religion is promoting.

[matrix87]

It isn't a "price" that you pay for some reward down the line, or at least that's a pretty shallow way of approaching it, and assuming that is kind of reductive

[vasco]

The individuals are killing themselves with drugs, hence the discussion.

[hifreq]

I get that. I disagree with the idea that to stop that we need Jesus.

[anon291]

On the contrary, it's completely an issue that society needs to solve, even if the government does not. Part of a civilization is providing a culture.

[shiroiuma]

>the idea that we need to bring religion back essentially to control people is extremely patronizing. Basically, we are saying that some people are too stupid to live productively if they are not controlled by fairy tales.

Can something be simultaneously true and patronizing?

Just looking at how humans in general behave worldwide, I'd say that yes, people are really quite stupid.

[hifreq]

Ha, well, yes. But despite sounding so anti-religious and pro individual responsibility, I am not only optimistic, I am always inspired and heartened by us, humans. I believe, we are capable of incredible breakthroughs and are growing as a whole. Untangling from centuries of brutal religious domination will take time, and we will struggle, and sometimes fail. But eventually we will grow out of the need to find purpose in submission, and will thrive as more aware and realized beings.