[ndriscoll]

> I grew up not expecting to get everything I wanted when I wanted it. Practicing restraint and prioritizing my needs over my wants is a core part of my character. So hearing people act like they need to watch Game of Thrones but can't pay HBO or whatever falls on deaf ears. I simply never watched Game of Thrones, life did move on.

I don't see how to interpret this as anything other than performative asceticism. Once you've judged that you cannot or will not pay, you've put yourself in a situation where watching vs. not watching has no material impact on anyone in the world. You'd have to explain why it makes you a bad person to download it from someone who willingly shares it with you (and who you might even make feel good for having shared). What exactly is the part where you've done something bad?

Where does the bad action happen? If you download it and delete it without watching, was that bad? All you've done is tied up a pirate's capacity to upload, so if anything you're the good guy, right? And it's the actual watching (which affects no one) that carries moral weight? Is watching at a friend's house (or borrowing their DVD) okay? What if your friend had ripped it to their computer, and you stream it from them, but you make sure not to watch at the same time as them, so they never "had more DVDs being used than they owned"? Or was it the creation of a copy? What if you just send all of the incoming packets straight to /dev/null and never have more than ~1500 temporary bytes at a time?

What if I get all of my entertainment value from simply downloading everything I can because I'm such a rebel (or because I'm someone on /r/datahoarder), but I never actually watch it, so in principle it didn't really matter whether I even downloaded the right thing?

It's hard for me to see how the "morality" doesn't essentially boil down to the axiom that what is morally permissible is to follow the law and impermissible to break it, which is IMO a pretty weak perspective. The law seems to be a little too full of special-cases here to think it got it precisely right morally (e.g. if you can borrow but not stream; convenience is immoral?), and surely most people wouldn't agree that e.g. drug use or abortion are immoral because they are illegal in some jurisdictions.

For reference, I don't have a TV and have never watched GoT because I'm just not interested in it. I entertain myself other ways like pondering this sort of nonsense. I don't really see much difference with some counterfactual world (or with some hypothetical person) where I find it worth my time to watch, but not worth (my time + $50) to buy it on ebay and watch. Or (my time + $120) to get the UHD one.

The people who most caused the company to shut down would be people like me that just weren't interested in the thing at all, and yes we are affected the least, and I don't see why anyone should feel bad about that. That's how it should be. People who pirate, if they have any effect at all, will create mindshare by talking about it to people who will buy it. That is still preferable for the company over me changing the subject when someone talks about GoT.

I would love for all of these media companies to go out of business though so they would stop pushing for treacherous computing.

[johnnyanmac]

>I don't really see much difference with some counterfactual world (or with some hypothetical person) where I find it worth my time to watch, but not worth (my time + $50) to buy it on ebay and watch. Or (my time + $120) to get the UHD one.

Well value is subjective. You couldn't pay some people to consume certain media and other have people spending hundreds on virtual skins.

That's all the invisible hand is about. Finding the sweet spot and accepting that some will not value what is offered. Or at all.

>The people who most caused the company to shut down would be people like me that just weren't interested in the thing at all, a

Sure, but at the same time you aren't their paying audience. Why should you be frustrated when a company metaphorically locks their door? As a thief that is just a basic expectation of the "job". Find an easier target or get better tools. If people didn't steal to the point where it impacted business, the act of selling door locks wouldn't be a million dollar industry. That now extends to the digital realm.

I can sympathize with greedy practices, but I don't know how you expect someone to bemoan your lack of ability to obtain free media (especially when there's ALREADY so much free media out there).

>I would love for all of these media companies to go out of business though so they would stop pushing for treacherous computing.

Don't like it, don't buy it. I don't like making that dismissal but I also don't line imposing my personal will on society. Which you're doing at this point. There will be people who just want convinence over free media and companies found an audience. Adapt to that or find media you do want to support.

Or just steal, I guess. Again, I don't care. Just don't be pompous about it like youre defending the integrity of software.

[ndriscoll]

I'm not sure where you think I complained about my ability to obtain free media? I could easily do that if I wanted. The places where it's available aren't very hidden. I don't want to though, which is what I said. I'm not interested. I do not care about their stuff at all. I don't even have a TV.

I complained that e.g. my computer has functionality in it that's designed to disobey me, its owner, and instead obey them, some unrelated party I have no business with. These sorts of chips do not belong in my computers, but you can't buy ones without them. Similar functionality will no doubt be used in the next 10 years to force you to use a compromised OS (e.g. with built in adware and spyware) if you want to do e.g. online banking. The trend is obvious to anyone paying any attention.

My house doesn't come with someone else's locks. All of the locks are mine. I and only I have the keys. And I can change or remove them whenever I like. There's no access door for Disney to come in and inspect my bathrooms.

And yes I think it should be illegal to sell a product that's designed to sabotage itself. I don't own a Blu-ray drive (no reason to, again I'm not interested), but my understanding is that a disk can tell the drive to revoke its keys and essentially brick itself. That should be criminal, and is actual destruction of property.

Anyway, I'll note that I still don't see an answer of what precisely is morally wrong with filesharing. Which of the acts I listed is the bad one? Or is it something else?

What is worse about downloading a movie than e.g. deciding to spend your $20 on marijuana (which is illegal everywhere in the US, and is in fact a crime, unlike downloading a movie, which is a civil matter) and watch the clouds go by?

For what it's worth, I don't do drugs or these days even drink. I've never found marijuana to be appealing. But I don't think people who do partake are bad for doing so. I feel much the same about people downloading movies. It doesn't affect anyone else, so I don't see an issue. If anything, the drugs have more of an impact on others. Some of my neighbors stink up the whole street, which is unpleasant on my walks.