[varispeed]

Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter.

If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.

[avbanks]

I'm sorry but this isn't indicative of the reality of driving in NYC. If you drive into NYC, you will have to park. When you park you'll need to pay for a lot or a garage. Daily parking in NYC can cost $50-100, monthly subscriptions can easily run over $500. Even if the unlikely happens and you find a parking meter those are $10 an hour. Poor people aren't driving into NYC, they're commuting on trains like everyone else. It should also be noted the congestion fee is for driving into Manhattan, not around.

[varispeed]

Not sure how this is relevant. There is a point where $100+$15 is too much and simply people can't afford more than that. So this is about pricing people out of coming in. It doesn't matter WHY they need to be there. If you have no money? GTFO.

Then if you say this has nothing to do with the poverty, then in that case, how is it going to reduce the congestion?

[avbanks]

"Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter."

You said that will adversely affect the poor but that's not true, what poor person is spending $100 a day on parking? Poor people use trains like nearly everyone else does. The extra $15 will discourage people from making unnecessary trips into the city thus reducing traffic/congestion and improving quality of life for people who live in the city.

For instance if someone live in Brooklyn and needs to make a trip to lower Manhattan they'll be more likely to use public transportation.

[varispeed]

Poverty is relative. Someone may be compensated well enough to afford rent, parking and all that, but after paying everything they have little money left for themselves. That $15 may eat into this meaning you may reconsider whatever arrangement you have - effectively pricing you out.

> The extra $15 will discourage people from making unnecessary trips into the city thus reducing traffic/congestion and improving quality of life for people who live in the city.

How is that going to do that? If someone is affluent, I don't think they are going to think twice about spending $15 extra. It will discourage people who cannot afford it.

> For instance if someone live in Brooklyn and needs to make a trip to lower Manhattan they'll be more likely to use public transportation.

Yes, people who can't afford spending $15. Anyone else will continue as they do, as private transport is safer, quicker and more convenient - plus there will be better traffic, as the poor will be taken off the road.

[avbanks]

> Yes, people who can't afford spending $15. Anyone else will continue as they do, as private transport is safer, quicker and more convenient - plus there will be better traffic, as the poor will be taken off the road.

This isn't true most of the time is quicker to take public transportation due to the congestion issues. Cars don't scale.

> How is that going to do that? If someone is affluent, I don't think they are going to think twice about spending $15 extra. It will discourage people who cannot afford it.

Yes the point is to discourage people from driving into Lower Manhattan. Lower Manhattan is easily accessible by public transportation.

> Poverty is relative. Someone may be compensated well enough to afford rent, parking and all that, but after paying everything they have little money left for themselves. That $15 may eat into this meaning you may reconsider whatever arrangement you have - effectively pricing you out.

The poverty rate for NYC is $35,000 if someone can afford to pay $24,000 yearly in parking I doubt they're in poverty, especially when public transportation is available and is quicker due to the high congestion. This wouldn't be implemented if there wasn't an alternative.

[varispeed]

> This isn't true most of the time is quicker to take public transportation due to the congestion issues. Cars don't scale.

If this isn't true then why the need for the charge then?

> Yes the point is to discourage people from driving into Lower Manhattan. Lower Manhattan is easily accessible by public transportation.

Only those who can't afford extra $15.

> The poverty rate for NYC is $35,000 if someone can afford to pay $24,000 yearly in parking I doubt they're in poverty

You are missing the point. Something like this is called wage slavery and many people are affected by it. They earn relatively a lot of money, but after spending on the necessities they have very little money on themselves. Someone can have a job that requires them to travel through the centre or actually park there and despite the high cost they can't afford to quit it because it is better to have some money than nothing. On paper they are doing well, but in reality they are miserable with no way out.

[up2isomorphism]

If you know who parks there, they are either at least earning > 2M annually who likely to be benefit from such pricing (gods know who will receive the contract that city awarded from the revenue of congestion pricing), or they are the people has to conduct services in the city. These cost just is going to added the money to normal people like you (assume you are not not owning a penthouse in Manhattan).

[shipscode]

Poor people park on the street for free and work or own the local businesses. They open their shops around street parking hours near them.

[avbanks]

This simply isn't true, where is there free parking in Lower Manhattan, on a day other than Sunday? And also you're telling me the poor people are small business owners in NYC?

Out of all of parking in Lower Manhattan maybe 5% is free. And it's still very difficult to get that parking.

[shipscode]

It sounds like you’ve never tried to park downtown. I drove, lived and parked daily for free in Manhattan for 6 years

The entire length of Manhattan from below 14th street/above Houston on every single street has free street parking as long as you can comply with the 1.5 hours twice a week that you can not park there. It’s a few choice streets and aves that are the exception to this.

Business owners and employees park in those spots daily because street cleaning hours take place typically before 11AM, so they just drive in and hang out for 10 mins before getting free parking all day.

Ya buddy, go run the numbers on a wash and fold service or any small business with 6-7% cash on cash returns and lmk how much is left at the end of the month to pay $450 for congestion fees.