[orik]

I’m not sure how all this can be said with a straight face; that you are “pro-israel” you just think the borders should be set back over 50 years and that a democratically elected government’s actions is worse than those of a terrorist organization.

Not once did you mention what atrocities were committed on Hamas’s side and instead you spent all your effort justifying Hamas by arguing how you think Lukid is worse.

What actions in your opinion would be an appropriate response for people (& government) of Israel to respond to the targeted rape, murder, beheadings of the elderly, men, women, and children, which was filmed by Hamas and sometimes live-streamed on the social media accounts of their victims to show off what they have achieved?

I’m not sure you can claim to be in the middle or support ‘both sides / both peoples’ when you only have bad things to say about one of them.

[lazyasciiart]

They did in fact mention what Hamas did - when they said civilian deaths caused by Likud are an order of magnitude higher. Perhaps they think civilian deaths are intrinsically bad, and don’t feel the need to calculate that one beheading is worth 5 children dead for lack of medical care, or whatever the official rate is?

Also, a reminder that Putin and Hamas were also democratically elected, and I don’t see why that has any relevance to whether their actions should be condemned or not.

[orik]

There have not been elections held in Gaza in 18 years and Putin’s elections are not considered free and fair - see the arrest of Navalny.

Democratic processes are good because it holds those in power accountable for their actions and should not just be hand waved away as if it doesn’t matter.

And no, what Hamas has done was not mentioned, all that was said was ‘the actions of Hamas’. What actions - did they hold a bake sale? It is unclear and minimized.

[lazyasciiart]

If you don’t know what Hamas did you are totally out of your depth. Israel argues that Hamas are the elected leaders of Gaza and that’s why residents there are at fault. I completely agree that Hamas do not represent Palestinians and think Israel should also admit this.

[dyslexit]

You can argue whether or not Palestinians deserve the response, but what makes you think Hamas does not represent Palestinians? A recent poll by the Arab World for Research and Development shows that 75% of Palestinians support both the October 7th attacks and Hamas's vision of a single, Palestinian-only state. And Hamas's vision to achieve this state is actual, literal genocide.

[lazyasciiart]

I see you've just joined this thread, so perhaps you missed the context that it was about democratic elections.