[sam1994]

I specifically said it's not ONLY about land...

Well, there have been many proposals for a 2-state solution but at many times, both sides have jeopardized and rejected offers.

Better their situation? Really? At the expense of displacing almost a million people? Come on man, are you hearing yourself? Not only have they displaced them, they've killed tens of thousands of them. On top of that, they've been taking more and more land as the decades have gone by. Not to mention the acts of terrorism they've inflicted on Palestinians in occupied territory.

1948 was a result of a war that Arab nations started? Can you elaborate on that? Why did they start it? Please elucidate me.

[mupuff1234]

> Come on man, are you hearing yourself

Yes I am. Do you think international borders around the world have been the same since the beginning of time? All nations have done the same and have shaped their own border through wars, in this case the war was a defensive one which makes it one of the more righteous ones.

Do you dispute the right to exist of the US or Australia? Why not? If anything jews are actually indigenous to the land.

Are you aware that not all of those 700k were displaced by israel? A large percentage of them fled on their own, and some also listened to the advice from arab nations and left their homes.

> 1948 was a result of a war that Arab nations started? Can you elaborate on that? Why did they start it? Please elucidate me.

Are you claiming that they didn't start it?

[sam1994]

Hahahaha Jews are indigenous to the land? Really? Dude, I don't think you even know what you're talking about.

Do you know who Abraham is? Yeah. It all starts from him. Earliest historical records show, he was born in present day Iraq. And he emigrated to the land of Canaan. According to both historical records AND the Old testament. It literally says in the Old Testament that the Caananites were in the land where Abraham traveled to and also says God will promise the land to the children of Isaac and Jacob (who was later renamed Israel). T

So what I've told you alone tells you that Jews were NOT indigenous to present day Israel. It was the Caananites man. Like bro. You saying that alone discredits anything you know so far because you're quite literally just parroting sh*t you hear without doing any research. You're arguing for the sake of arguing. Seriously. Open a book. And read. Do more research.

[mupuff1234]

Lol, you do realize that Palestinians also migrated to that area, no one magically appeared there - humanity didn't start there.

And btw https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891 - Jews are not any less indigenous than Palestinians.

Palestinians as a people and identity only started to exist in the 1900s - please learn your history, these are basic facts.

[sam1994]

You keep straw manning me.

I never said Palestinians did not emigrate to the area.

I'm refuting the fact that you're saying Jews are indigenous to the land there. That's completely false.

It's so ironic that you tell me to learn history and claim these are basic facts when the paper your OWN paper that you linked refutes you. It literally says Palestinians and Jews come Caananites. Which is true. Because the Jews and other folks mixed with Caananites. That's what I'm saying mate. Abraham emigrated from Iraq to the land of Canaan. He had Isaac who had Israel and then that's how the 12 tribes of Israel conquered the land of Judea. They spread their seed early on. But they were not indigenous.

You literally have no clue about what you're talking about.

[mupuff1234]

So if neither are indigenous to the land, why do you consider Palestinians to be occupied? According to you Palestinians are also occupiers and colonizers.

[mupuff1234]

And you realize that by your definition no one is indigenous to any land except africa right?

Jews are indigenous to the land according to any normal "indigenous" definition.

[sam1994]

Dude, you're making straw-man arguments. You're saying "All nations have done the same and have shaped their own border through wars".

Like that makes it okay? And man, you don't even realize that you don't know what you're talking about. You keep making orthogonal points. Here's what I'm saying, land keeps getting taken. By Israelis. That's an international crime. Quite literally. The UN was established at the time. And guess what. The Israelis were promised a certain percentage of Palestinian land by the British, but they took more. And kept taking more and more with illegal settlements man. Even to this day man. They've kicked Palestinians off in 1948 and they continue to do that. That's what you don't understand and you keep glossing over it as if it's been done. It's happening NOW man.

A large percentage of them fled on their own? I don't know how true that is but that's effectively the same thing as being driven away. What compelled them to do that? You do realize tens of thousands were killed too right...? Like dude, I don't think you even hear yourself. Why wouldn't they leave on their own if they were being killed? And chased away? The British soldiers physically evicted Palestinians. Don't you know that? Why did they also leave on their own? Like don't you think about these things? You can ask the same questions to Jews when Muslims ruled over them. The Jews didn't leave when Muslims ruled over them. So why didn't the Jews leave when Muslims took over Spain? Hmm? Why didn't the Jews leave when Islamic ruler, Salahuddin conquered Jerusalem back in the 13th century? Why did they come back? Why did Umar Ibn Khattab, the first Caliphate of Islam, establish 20 Jewish families in Jerusalem when he conquered Jerusalem and found out the Jews were driven and slaughtered by the Christian? You see where I'm getting at? When Muslims ruled, Jews were protected. They weren't displaced. They kept their own lands. No displacement. And then the colonial British came and **ed everything up. Thanks Britain. Thanks a lot.

[mupuff1234]

Israel expanded in 1948 after a defensive war, which makes the conquest legal (same as 1967)

I agree about the west bank, I think Israel should remove the settlements.

I don't see what Muslim history in the are has to do with anything. Jews are indigenous to the area, border fights exist, and the current situation exist. Israel was founded and expanded after a few successful defensive wars - you just need to accept that as a fact.

Now we can be pragmatic and try a two state solution or we can continue arguing about history.

Palestinians can fight for what they view as justice for generations and get nowhere except more suffering, or they can decide that the west bank and Gaza are enough. It's their call. I know what I would decide