[HybridCurve]

I've noticed quite a bit of propaganda which is intentionally conflating these two pairs. That is, those who are advocating for Gazans are referred to as Hamas supporters and those advocating on behalf of Israeli citizens are accused of supporting genocide, etc. This is done to polarize both groups, encourage strongly negative emotional reactions, and prevent anyone from taking a more reasonable perspective to address issues on both sides of this complex situation.

[ac130kz]

Try to argue and "make a peaceful treaty" with a ruling party of terrorists (greatly supported by the population btw), who want to completely obliterate Israel, launch rockets from their own houses near their own children, which has been factually proven countless amount of times. Same goes to Russia, DPRK, Iran, these are narrow minded non-negotiable despotic countries, they want only their way, regardless of casualties (including their own), international laws, etc.

[Georgelemental]

Hamas supporters would say the same thing about Israel, that they could never "make a peaceful treaty" with the state that expelled their grandmother from her home at gunpoint, that launched the bomb that killed their sister, that supported the illegal settlers that shot their cousins in the West Bank…

The 1% most extreme on both sides want to drag you down to their level, don't let them.

[ac130kz]

It was newly formed Arab countries' unjustified joint decision to destroy Israel in the middle of the 20th century, which led to this point, people somehow forget who started it all.

[Georgelemental]

That's a grossly inaccurate depiction of the events of 1948, but in any case Israel's founding was 75 years ago and the actors involved are all long dead. What matters is doing right by people alive today.

[catlover76]

I don't like grinding the historical axe--I think it's a dumb thing people do in this conflict. And I favor the right of your country to exist, largely on the basis that no country has any "right" to exist and so the country's continued existence in itself establishes any such alleged right. That being said, it is not like Israel was sitting there minding its own business, and its not like its own establishment was bloodless, and its not like its creation was a peaceful event for many of the Arabs it displaced.

Again, none of that, to me, vitiates the right of an Israeli person to live peacefully in Israel, but I don't take kindly to anyone's nationalist fantasy, and I find it absurd that people continue to trade in the kind of simplistic tribal patriotism that just regurgitates their ethnic narrative.

[HybridCurve]

For any side of conflict which is playing zero-sum, there can be no negotiations which are beneficial to both. Only one side has to commit to this strategy to condemn the other side to this path. Authoritarianism is an awful method of government which often ensures the minimum amount of people necessary will contribute to a solution for that nation which will benefit only the most privileged. All these countries mentioned are prime examples, and Israel is not exempt from criticism given Bibi's actions over the past few years.