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by SwedishExpat 918 days ago
Can you realistically have a vote to stop paying taxes or to smoke weed?

Because Seko could have a vote to deliver to Tesla if they wanted, but ultimately the Unions are on the employees side so we're okay with their decisions.
1 comments
gruez 918 days ago
> Can you realistically have a vote to stop paying taxes or to smoke weed?

This is inevitably going to turn into a quibble about whether representation and/or the electoral college constitutes "true" democracy, so I'm going to head that off by amending my previous comment to be at the state level (rather than the federal level). There's several states that had ballot measures on tax increases and/or marijuana legalization, and failed, for example:

https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Marijuana_Legalization,_Prop...

https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Proposition_C,_Medical_Mari...

https://ballotpedia.org/Nevada_Marijuana_Initiative,_Questio...

In those cases it would be strange to characterize the dissenters as not being "forced" into anything, even if it was a collective decision.

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SwedishExpat 918 days ago
> In those cases it would be strange to characterize the dissenters as not being "forced" into anything, even if it was a collective decision.

Okay, I see, but then you could also leave your Union for zero cost. You could leave your US citizenship too, I guess, by moving. But my point is I think forcing is far too strong a word for the union meanings here. Why wouldn't you support this if you benefit from the Swedish model?

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gruez 918 days ago
>Okay, I see, but then you could also leave your Union for zero cost.

Clearly it's not as simple or cheap as "zero cost", otherwise Tesla would have bribed some workers $1000 (or whatever) to defect, rather than hiring a bunch of expensive lawyers.

>But my point is I think forcing is far too strong a word for the union meanings here. Why wouldn't you support this if you benefit from the Swedish model?

Whether you benefit from something is irrelevant to whether it's "forced" or not. I think taxes are a net positive for everyone in society, but I'm under no illusions that everyone's forced to pay it.

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xorcist 917 days ago
> otherwise Tesla would have bribed some workers $1000 (or whatever) to defect,

Tesla is doing exactly this. It was the first thing they did. (The exact amount however is not public.)

It's called "breaking the strike" and has been used for over a century. It's par for the game and every union trains to expects it.

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SwedishExpat 917 days ago
> Clearly it's not as simple or cheap as "zero cost"

It really is! To leave a union you just leave. You'll miss out on some perks like topping up your unemployment insurance though.

> Whether you benefit from something is irrelevant to whether it's "forced" or not.

You can get most of the perks without being a member, because membership is anonymous within companies and unions have argued that everyone receives the benefits due to this! So you can have most of the perks of a union without paying "taxes", but I think it's fair to chip into the pot.

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