[sgjohnson]

The US constitution actually allows slavery/involuntary servitude as a punishment for a crime, as per the 13th amendment:

> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

So it makes little sense to compare prison labour programs to "any other workplace".

[ClumsyPilot]

> makes little sense to compare prison labour programs to "any other workplace"

Either it's force labour, or it's not. You can't get away with things just by slapping a different label on them.

> The US constitution actually allows slavery

If a Chinese person posted here "actually all the human rights abuses in China are perfectly legal and in accordance with Chinese law" you would not be impressed.

We wouldn't be like "alright, nothing to see here". In fact, we would probably be horrified that the inhumane system was codified officially, and is here to stay, as opposed to being a temporary result of oversight and corruption.

So forgive the international reader like myself for being extremely unimpressed with this state of affairs.

[sgjohnson]

I’m pretty sure that most countries allow forced labour as a punishment for a crime.

In my native Latvia, a member of the EU, it’s the most commonly handed out criminal punishment. x hours of unpaid public work. Typically on a strict schedule. Or you can go to the can if you’re opposed to such “slavery”.

Oh and yes, there are also labour programs in our prisons that are probably comparable to the ones in the US. An easy sell actually, because you can either

1. fill your day by doing some work in horrible conditions for basically no pay, but you get to do something

2. rot in your cell all day long

I’m pretty sure that most people pick option 1. After all, you need a way to buy cigarettes.

Nobody calls this slavery.

We also have mandatory military service that started this year. I’m happy to call this slavery, because it’s imposed on people that haven’t done anything wrong.

But you seriously can’t compare forced labour as a punishment for a crime vs any other workplace. It’s disingenious for very obvious reasons. Why not go a step further? Why not claim that it’s a human rights violation to incarcerate people in the first place? After all, the universal declaration of human rights says that EVERYONE has the right to leave their country, re-enter it, and freely move about in their own country, and this is a “universal human right” that’s so clearly being denied to prisoners.

So forgive the international reader like myself for seeing nothing morally wrong with this state of affairs.

[michaelcampbell]

> You can't get away with things just by slapping a different label on them.

This is almost precisely what a legal system is, and does.

[therealdrag0]

A parent forcing a child to do their chores is forced labor, but no one calls it that or slavery (except the kid :)). Context matters, and compulsion alone is not a rights or ethical violation.