| > But the whole point of bitcoin is that it solves the digital double spend problem you mention. You're still missing the point, you're focused on the fact there's a technical measure to prevent double spending. Great. That has literally zero relevance to what I'm saying, which is that bitcoin is made of bits, and bits aren't scarce, so scarcity isn't what creates bitcoin's value. We all have agreed that a specific number of bits arranged in a specific pattern belong to Jim, and another set belong to Sally, and on and on. > and in order to perform those functions, the thing we're using as money needs certain fundamental qualities which are:
> - good divisibility Not even remotely, divisibility of a currency is based on math, not the currency. There was no 12.5 cent coin in the USA but for decades stock prices were priced in eighths. No one has a 9/10 cent coin, but gas in the USA always has that extra 0.9 cents on the price. Frequently money is tracking down to the fraction of a cent, but there is no official declaration from the US Gov't that sub-cents exist. In Japan the yen cannot be subdivided since 1953 with respect to minted coins. > - robustness This has no meaning. > - scarcity Not even a little. There are over 21 trillion USD in the world. Scarcity isn't part of a currency, you actually want ubiquity with a currency, not scarcity. It's CONTROLLED supply you want, not mere scarcity. Other things that makes for good currencies are acceptability, which BTC fails in because so few people actually use it, and reliability, which BTC fails with it's extreme volatility. BTC is a security, not a currency. > It's so good that it's very difficult to see how it will be bettered (in the physical and digital realms at least). Better alternatives were created VERY soon after BTC, and have much better utility as currencies than BTC, although they are also casino money, rather than actual currencies. BTC itself has been improved many times since it's launch, so it's actually really easy to see that it was not only not unsurpassable, and unavoidable that better versions would come about. Your comment is the same as saying "everything that can be invented has been invented," which as we can see, was not a true statement even when uttered in 1899. |
I've chatted about bitcoin to a lot of people and this time I've come across this argument, so kudos for not spouting the normal rubbish.
So I can agree that there's a certain pattern of bits that assign some bitcoin in the block chain to me (but only because they're associated with an address for which I have the private key). If I try and copy that pattern of bits, the bitcoin network will reject my blockchain because I've double spent: each entry in the ledger is a transaction that moves bitcoin from one address to another. If I simply copy the transaction that says Jim gave 0.02 BTC to Sally, the network will detect it. If I try to add a new transaction that says the same thing, I'll need to sign it with Sally's private key, which is simply impossible for me to guess.
Am I getting closer to answering your point?
Regarding fundamental qualities of good money, "robustness" means how easily it can be destroyed. Gold can't be destroyed - it's a chemical element. Glass money however would be terrible. The digits in your bank account are robust, they can't be changed very easily at all without actually adding or removing money.
Scarcity does actually mean a controlled/limited supply when it comes to money. Technically it means "in short supply", which when it comes to money is the same thing - everyone would like more money. The quantity of monetary units makes no difference provided that it's divisible enough. If everyone in the world suddenly had 10x more dollars than they currently have, no one would be richer or poorer than they were before. Your wages would end up being 10x as much and everything would cost 10x as much.
Regarding acceptability, we talking about fundamental properties of the money rather than how people see it right now. For example, the first person to dig up gold would have found no one would accept it as payment because they didn't recognise it as having any value. It's value arose from the fundamental qualities I mentioned, the closest to acceptability being that it's fungible and relatively easy to recognise as gold. Its combination of colour, shininess softness and weight are quite unique and (were) hard to counterfeit.
Nakamoto went to very careful lengths to ensure that bitcoin is a commodity and not a security. Even the SEC agree that it's not a security (they'd love to class is as a security if they could).
If you think better alternatives to bitcoin exist, then it's because you see bitcoin and the alternatives in a different light to me (as evidenced by the earlier points). From my perspective, I agree that someone could always throw a curve ball and come up with a way to improve it, but after studying it carefully for years, I can't see any way that the problem bitcoin solves could be implemented significantly more efficiently. I envisage it being the best store of value for the next 1000 years or more (or at least until we advance from the digital realm)