[exclusiv]

I just recently got into Steve Howe. He's considered one of, if not the best guitarist of all time and I came across a quote he had that said something like he wished guitarists would focus on being musicians. Same thing as coders to engineers.

I've come across more technically able programmers than I am. But they aren't better engineers. And a lot of that is because I'm an entrepreneur and have a marketing secondary background as well.

So many companies discount non coding skillsets that actually make one an engineer in my opinion.

They hire the butcher instead of the chef and then wonder why it tastes like shit when it's cooked.

[mp05]

You're onto something but it flies in the face of a bit of convention as you're probably not the standard personality that gets into engineering.

I think it's a fine career to go to school, get your BS in whatever technical field you choose, and work as engineer #52354 at Ingersoll Rand, or Boeing, or whomever, and retire after 30 years of being master of your highly complex but perhaps limited domain. That is a very valid definition of an "engineer". These people probably have very fulfilling personal lives that you'd probably see as miserably boring, and that's okay.

I've thought hard lately about this sort of thing, and one thing that seems clear to me is that management likely sees the "standard engineer" is a cost sink where someone like yourself may escape that sort of criticism as your value transcends just engineering and into other departments that directly generate revenue.

For what it's worth, we sound like the same type of engineer but I've worked to try and turn what may be contempt for the stereotype into something more... collaborative.

[ponector]

But that is the market. 99% employers don't want engineers, they want cheap modern-framework-coders.

Real market values more Spring java coders than C++ engineers who work with hardware.

[altdataseller]

What are some examples on how a non coding skillset makes you a better engineer?

[mtreis86]

I learned how to time things and operate a system in parallel by working in commercial kitchens. I learned how to work with people and not be disheartened by them through working retail. And wrenching on cars requires diagnostics and logical thinking to determine what is actually broken without throwing a pile of parts at the problem.

[x3n0ph3n3]

- ability to communicate effectively with multiple stakeholders

- ability to plan and estimate

[mp05]

- creativity and an understanding of humans that, at the least, borders on genuine interest. unless you design chips then who cares I suppose??

[uguuo_o]

Just a minor note. Howe is good, one of the best yes, but Paco De Lucia reigns far above them all.

[Gud]

There are many ways to play a guitar. The Iron Maiden guitarists, blew away everyone else in the early 1980s with their guitar solos(and playing in harmony). They had mastered pretty much every technique you can use on the electric guitar. Tapping, etc.

Yet, they can not play like Paco De Lucia, who finger picks a nylon stringed guitar. And Paco De Lucia can't play like they can. So who is really best?

[wcrossbow]

There is no best musician. Not just because there are a multitude of different skills that go into it, but also because nobody agrees on what weight to give to each of them or even what they are. This makes it impossible to make an absolute ranking. At best you would get a Pareto front made up of the greatest.

[shermantanktop]

Any time somebody makes a claim that their passionate judgment about a subjective topic is objectively true, that’s a bit-flip moment for me. Doesn’t mean I will ignore them, but we are now having a different conversation. They are a “fan” and discussions with fans are often not that interesting.

And fwiw, Paco De Lucia is technically skilled to a fault, but does very little for me.

[exclusiv]

I'm not familiar with Paco so thanks for sharing.

I looked up Howe and he said this about Paco:

"There was mention of Paco de Lucía, who is the greatest, well, if not the greatest ever flamenco guitarist. Many people love him dearly as I do, and if somebody says, 'Can you play like Paco?' I say, 'No, no.' [laughs] So I just jumped on board, and it was wonderful. Very nice people." [1]

Howe made up a flamenco piece on the spot for a Queen song so he was talking about Paco then.

The nod is there by the man himself for the greatest flamenco guitarist.

But if you discuss something that is basically subjective, you still need criteria because if one person is saying oh Paco is the most technically skilled that's one thing. Another would be more akin to how the Decathalon decides the greatest athlete.

I don't know if Howe is the best ever, but if there was a Decathalon equivalent for guitarists, I'd bet Howe would top Paco no problem. And in that event, he'd top Jimi Hendrix and Page too. But that's just my benchmark, having range and full command of the discipline.

[1] https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/yes_...

[l33t7332273]

Can you add some qualitative comparisons that make you say that?

[Lexforce]

Here’s a fantastic display of Paco de Lucia’s music: https://youtu.be/0o8vszqVL2U?si=XtT-dhzaQZuKOoyN

[uguuo_o]

I'm just relaying what most guitarists that have played with him have said. Watch a few interviews, jazz, flamenco, whatever he plays.

Here an example of his playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C97H_HvBjPA

30 years playing guitar, I believe I can recognize masters, but this guy is just wow.