[Syonyk]

A standard hybrid (of the sort that a range of companies make, handwavingly a parallel hybrid with creep capability, which a PHEV is just a supersized version of) eliminates a huge swath of things that go wrong with ICEs.

First and foremost, the transmission replaces the rather staggering pile of complexity of a modern automatic transmission, typically, with "a few motor/generators, some planetary gears, maybe a band that only engages when a motor is already stopped, and some power electronics." Compared to the 9+ speed automatics, this is dramatically simpler. Quite a few hybrids don't even have a mechanical reverse gear, it's just using the electronics for that brief period.

But, beyond that, you generally aren't asking the engine to idle, or to provide "starting torque" for the car - the hybrid system handles that sort of thing well. On at least the Gen 1 Volts, the motor "idles" at about 1200-1300 RPM, vs the ~750 RPM in most other vehicles, because it's almost never needed at low speed (heating in the dead of winter is the one time I notice it). But you don't have low speed, high load operation on the engines (which is a hard regime to operate in), and you don't have rapid speed changes with gear shifts (which is certainly more stressful than smooth speed changes or continuous speed operation).

You have less brake system wear, and... it goes on.

I know there's this popular "Hybrids/PHEVs are the most complicated of both worlds, so they must be the most unreliable of all worlds!" thing going around, but the data is quite clear that they're exceedingly reliable in actual use, and the "most complicated of all worlds" things tends to zoom out far enough to avoid looking at the transmission or engine design at any level of detail.

[giobox]

> "First and foremost, the transmission replaces the rather staggering pile of complexity of a modern automatic transmission, typically, with "a few motor/generators, some planetary gears, maybe a band that only engages when a motor is already stopped, and some power electronics." Compared to the 9+ speed automatics, this is dramatically simpler. Quite a few hybrids don't even have a mechanical reverse gear, it's just using the electronics for that brief period."

There are very few PHEVs that aren't using the same automatic gearbox as the plain-ole ICE model. You are describing the architecture the Prius uses I guess? In almost all cases the manufacturer just wraps a small electric motor around the output shaft of the same automatic gearbox connected to a small battery.

Mazda PHEVs - same auto gearboxes

BMW PHEVs - same auto gearboxes

Volvo PHEVs - same auto gearboxes

Mercedes PHEVs - same auto gearboxes

etc

There are probably some other exceptions i'm missing, but few PHEVs have a custom gearbox. While they may be just as reliable in many cases, they are almost always more complex designs than their ICE variants.

[fomine3]

Toyota and US brands tend to adopt Series-Parallel hybrid system. European tend to adopt Parallel hybrid system like you listed, and Mazda/Hyundai want to be like an European. Japanese tend to adopt Series hybrid system.

Series-Parallel and Series hybrid remove transmission so possibly there's an reliability advantage. For Parallel hybrid, it's electric addon so I don't know there are reliability advantage.

[thsksbd]

"There are very few PHEVs that aren't using the same automatic gearbox as the plain-ole ICE model."

Except the most popular hybrid, the prius, which admittedly does t have a non/hybrid counterpart because it was done from the ground up to avoid unnecessary legacy technology

[seltzered_]

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV uses a GKN 'multi-mode dedicated hybrid' transmission with some notable differences than a standard auto gearbox.

Some Lexus & Toyota hybrids and PHEVs use the eCVT transmission, which uses 2-3 electric motors inside to adjust torque rather than a belt.

The Subaru Crosstrek PHEV (internationally also called the e-boxer platform for the Forester hybrid) uses a Toyota eCVT variant that also still facilitates symmetrical AWD instead of a separate electrical motor driving the rear axle.

[giobox]

As I said, there are exceptions, but broadly its just slap motors on output shafts. The motor is usually designed to bolt onto an existing automatic transmission housing.

[Syonyk]

Are you using PHEV as "Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle" in the sense of "Has a long range on battery only"?

The ones I'm familiar with (which, admittedly, don't cover the ones you use) are all "parallel drivetrain" sorts of things, with a Prius-type transmission. Though I'm really only familiar with the Prius and Volt type drivetrains.

[giobox]

No - I'm using it in the exact same sense Consumer Reports did here and the car industry at large does - Hybrid cars that have a CCS charging port or similar and can run on electric only propulsion for some period of time. There are far more PHEV models on sale than just the Volt and Prius. If I recall correctly, the Volt isn't even sold anymore.

This is the same definition wikipedia uses too:

"A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) is a hybrid electric vehicle whose battery pack can be recharged by plugging a charging cable into an external electric power source, in addition to internally by its on-board internal combustion engine-powered generator."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid

[emodendroket]

> I know there's this popular "Hybrids/PHEVs are the most complicated of both worlds, so they must be the most unreliable of all worlds!" thing going around, but the data is quite clear that they're exceedingly reliable in actual use, and the "most complicated of all worlds" things tends to zoom out far enough to avoid looking at the transmission or engine design at any level of detail.

The article suggests plug-in hybrids are nearly 150% more prone to issues than regular cars though? I mean, I have one, and it seems good so far, but it contradicts your assertions.

[Dah00n]

Hmm, I don't have the numbers to compare and draw any conclusions, but aren't many (most?) Toyota hybrids using CVT transmissions? The newest Yaris doesn't have a "real" CVT (eCVT with planetary gears instead) but the old one does. Those are not used in the none hybrid Toyotas at all as far as I know. Also CVTs have huge reliability problems, at least in some cars (Honda comes to mind).

[piperswe]

AFAIK the Prius, for example, has never had a CVT, only an "eCVT". The core of the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system is that "eCVT".

Toyota CVTs are decently reliable, but other automakers tend to have trouble implementing them well.