[takumo]

It's true, car dealers "can't sell" EVs. Not because people don't want EVs, but because dealers either don't want to sell them, or don't know how to sell them.

I've owned 3 EVs since 2016 and I've been to franchise dealerships each time. I've been to dealerships both with and without dedicated or specially trained EV sales reps.

Sales reps who've not had any specific training on selling EVs, working in dealerships with no dedicated EV showroom space are _terrible_ at selling EVs IME. At best they're disinterested in making a sale, at worst they actively discourage you with all the common EV related FUD.

Showrooms with dedicated space to showcase EV product offerings, information about EVs and which have marketing material actively incentivising the benefits of an EV, also have sales reps who are knowledgeable, helpful, and actively seeking to close a sale.

[hitpointdrew]

I don’t want an EV.

EV’s will never be a viable option until they are better in every facet than a combustion engine.

The charging is cumbersome and much longer than filling a gas tank, hard pass.

I would buy a combustion engine car, even if it was more expensive, for this reason alone.

[takumo]

If you think inserting a plug into a socket is "cumbersome" perhaps. Plus you can do it at home, while you sleep. If you're on a long trip the range is long enough now that is a good reason to stretch your legs and hydrate.

[TheLoafOfBread]

When you can't charge over night, then standing for an hour on a charger is absurdly inconvenient. Like returning from touchscreen phone to rotary phone and screaming progress.

[gruturo]

It already doesn't take one hour to charge most new cars - rather half, unless you insist on charging also for the last 15-20% which is slower to protect the battery. And this is a baseline from which we're steadily improving year after year. DC Fast charging was 50kW, then 150, now 350kW chargers are being deployed (admittedly not many current, and very few older cars can take advantage of the full speed) and will keep getting even faster over time.

An 80% charge at 350kW would take under 10.5 minutes even for a semi-large 75kW/h battery*, you'd barely have the time to hit the bathroom and order a fast food meal to consume in the car - and this will gradually become the new baseline, from which you can expect further improvements down the line.

* it would actually take more if you showed up with a completely empty battery - the first 10ish % needs to be slower, to protect the battery - but in reality you would NOT plan to reach a charger with such little range remaining, so it would actually take you quite a bit less. A 15% to 80% charge on a 75kW/h battery at 350kW would take 8m21s.

[TheLoafOfBread]

That's all nice theory, but from my experience as BEV owner:

* 350kW chargers are rare, cars able to take the charge even more. (I have Enyaq, charge is capped around 150kW, never saw it charging faster). The most common charger in the wild is around 50kW

* 100kW+ chargers are insanely expensive. It is cheaper to drive ICE than charge on those.

* Chargers are often broken

* You are assuming that there is nobody in front of you. Good luck getting your 8 minutes with 2 other cars waiting to charge as well.

* 8 minutes is still slower than getting a gas to an ICE

[NewJazz]

100kW+ chargers are insanely expensive. It is cheaper to drive ICE than charge on those.

Uh... Where in the world are you seeing this? And what kind of mpg, miles / kWh, $/gallon, and $/kWh are we talking?

[frumper]

It’s not for everyone. If you can charge at home with average electric rates and you’re not regularly traveling more than 5 hours at a time then it’s probably a good option. If you travel more frequently, get a Tesla. If it’s still not for you, then it’s not for you. If you’re just angry and mad other people like them, I’ve got no recommendations.

[gruturo]

To be fair, if you have only driven a Tesla, you potentially have no idea how bad, and yes, cumbersome, charging can be. My ex has 8 apps on her phone, to allow charging in some (not even all) of the many separate networks accessible in Germany. Some apps are atrocious, some demand network connectivity in an underground garage, some return unexplainable errors which even the provider can't help you with, and which persist even after a phone wipe. Happened with Lidl, the solution was to switch the iPhone's language from British English to US English. Probably their website barfed on the Accept-Language: en-gb header.

Fortunately legislation is coming to force all of them to take credit/debit cards, and standards like Autocharge will also help.

[mikecoles]

Stretch your kegs and hydrate? You either travel with kids or are 90+ years old.

Battery levels, not hydration or bladder levels, are the limiting factor of EV trips.

[JohnFen]

> Plus you can do it at home, while you sleep.

Lots of people, including myself, can't do this.

[hitpointdrew]

> Plus you can do it at home, while you sleep. If you're on a long trip the range is long enough now that is a good reason to stretch your legs and hydrate.

Oh it's so easy and convenient!

You are being short sighted, yeah in ideal conditions, it's OK. But what about.

You're pulling into your home just about on empty, plug it in walk inside, then a get a phone call from your dad who lives 2 hours away "Mom just had a terrible accident, and is in the hospital, were not sure she can make it, get to the hospital as soon as your can!" Now your dumb ass has to sit and panic and stress while you wait for your stupid EV to charge. On top of that now your playing this guessing game, "What is the least amount of charge I need to get to the hospital, what if I underestimate just a bit and run out of charge 10 miles out, then I would be even later than if just let it charged a bit more".

What if you car is low on charge, you go plug in it, then a storm comes ripping through, electricity is out, it's out for days, your fucking stuck, sorry.

I think people are vastly under estimating the "I HAVE TO LEAVE RIGHT THE FUCK NOW" value you have with a combustion engine.

Emergencies happen, electricity goes out, I would happily pay more for a vehicle that didn't have these terrible drawbacks.

[NewJazz]

Why did you invent this scenario where I just got back from a road trip and my mom is dying?

God forbid I call a car for this once in a 1000 lifetimes scenario.

[hitpointdrew]

What is “calling a car”? Like taxi? By the time it’s gets there you might as well just waited for your car to charge.

And yeah, God forbid you move from something with more flexibility and freedom (a combustion engine), to something with less (an EV).

I don’t wish anyone ever go from more to less freedom and flexibility.

The “derp it’s only 20 min to charge” is a bad argument. You are asking me to go from 2 min or less to 20+ min. That’s a 900% increase and is totally unacceptable.

[frumper]

You’re right. You should have a helicopter fueled up and ready to go. Seeing your mom quicker in case this scenario presents itself is the driving motivation for your vehicle type. /s

[thebruce87m]

This is a perfect example of the mental gymnastics people will go through to convince themselves that EVs are not viable.

My EV is on average “fuller” than my diesel was since my commute uses 10% per day and it gets recharged every night, whereas my diesel would wait until 1/6th full at least until a fill up.

[Talinx]

That not every customer wants an EV or that an EV is not the best car for every customer is no excuse for sales reps being subpar when it comes to EVs. Especially when the car industry does not take sales rep performance into account when evaluating EV sales at dealerships.

[castlecrasher2]

Mostly agreed here. We love our EV...for short drives. For longer ones, we have an ICE minivan.

[mindslight]

I don't see how you agree with the poster when it seems like for you, an EV is quite viable.

The reality is that each has different constraints. Sitting around waiting for a charge on road trips seems annoying. Never having to "get gas" for local trips seems awesome.

[dzhiurgis]

IDK it saved me few hours. I did 22000 km with my EV. That 2.2 tons of fuel saved which is about 36 fills which is 3 hours at 5 minutes each.

During my ownership I did 3 longer trips. Total charge time is about 1.5 hours.

[busterarm]

Californians don't realize that in most of the rest of the country, the infrastructure still isn't there.

There's a reason car sales in NYC are still sub-1% EVs.

[JCharante]

who is driving more than 200 miles per day??

[busterarm]

That's the wrong way to look at it. Regardless of how much you're driving, most folks in dense urban non-Californian areas are getting at best a Level 2 charge.

Who has the time to sit around or park their car for an hour for every 20 miles they drive?

If you take NYC for example, EV parking spaces are big bucks and for the few available public infrastructure places, most of the spots are being occupied full time by city parks department vehicles that rarely if ever leave the charger.

As far as taking your question literally, you should talk to people in the midwest more -- I know lots of folks in the Dakotas and Wyoming with crazy schedules and 4hr commutes because that's literally the closest work.

[smileysteve]

> I know lots of folks in the Dakotas and Wyoming;

Add in Alaska.

And you're at 3m citizens of 282m vehicles. (< ~1% if every citizen of these 4 states has a vehicle)

[busterarm]

Sure thing, but they're entitled to travel too. They may be 1% of vehicles but national legislation mandating EVs effects them just the same.

Also way to pick out the least significant part of what I said to have a gripe about.

[hknapp]

I don't think that matters. If I can't use a car for the 5 times I take 400+ mile road trips a year, why would I buy it?

[JohnFen]

I don't want an EV. Well, I'm not opposed to an EV, but I am opposed to a car that phones to someone's server somewhere. That excludes (AFAICT) all EVs and non-EV cars of recent vintage.